Oh yeah, this guy needs a good smacking.
Berman speaks with Sci-Fi Wire. He just doesn’t get why fans are tuning out. That statement, right there, should be Paramount’s final clue about him. He doesn’t understand the fans. He may never have, he just got lucky with smarter people around (Ron Moore and Ira Steven Behr come to mind).
Maybe his luck’s run out.
(Update 2-7-2005) Even User Friendly has a comment on the subject.
Golden goose?
Oh dear…
The full might of one’s ego
I’m telling you, he’s actually proud of the space vampires.
Re: The full might of one’s ego
He’s just typical Hollywood: “I think the movie/show is great. I guess the audience just doesn’t get it.” or “People must be tired of Star Trek if they don’t like what I’m doing with it because my work is clearly GOLD.”
Re: The full might of one’s ego
I Thought Enterprise was stupid at first. How at this time I fell it it Totaly Awsome!! They are doing a great job on it. And cancelling it would be stupid ..
Long Live Enterprise..
Gee DS9 was shit and that lived !
Idiots!
It’s not about ‘franchise fatigue’, it’s about taking an amazing concept and wrecking it. That’s what the fans don’t like! Gods, man, go poke around the blogosphere and bit and see what the fans are saying!
Re: Idiots!
It isn’t that simple. There will always be fans that
worship anything with a Trek logo or chest badge on it.
What Berman et alia forgot is that most fans still have
working brains. We look for story, plot,
characterization, highs, lows, etc in our entertainment.
We just happen to like it in an SF-styled wrapper. When
we don’t see it, we look elsewhere. He has managed to
train us to to wait a long time between first episode and
first delivery of the real goods, but eventually we get
tired and wander off.
Its like Dr Doolittle’s Pushme-Pullyou. The writers want
to take the show somewhere, but the fans have to want to
go there. If not, the show sputters and dies. I hate to
say it, but other great cancelled shows Firefly and
Brimstone, for example, and not so great ones, like
Crusade and Millenium, have the same problem. “Can’t find
an audience” can have a lot of sources.
But I still join in the cursing of Berman.
Re: Idiots!
Can’t find an audience makes me wish for a way in which we could pay directly for really good shows. Other then just buying the dvd’s, because first they’re a bit expensive for day to day watching and second they’re only out after a show has been on tv and too late to keep it from beeng canceled. What i’d like is something like a subscription for a show… heh at 1 buck an episode it would actually be around the price for dvds and affordable enough even for several good shows at once.
Berman’s problem right here…
Berman inadvertantly reveals his problem:
Those people are desperate to be your fans. Those ‘cute little titles’ dismiss their hatred of the crap you are shovelling out under their favorite franchise’s name.
Oh. I see. Instead of viewing Star Trek as a rich backdrop to write great new entertainment against, you view it as a golden goose you can just squeeze for easy money. That explains a lot.
Oh, he makes me so mad!
Okay, we need to take up a collection. If we can’t keep Enterprise on the air, we need to make B&B an offer… they can’t refuse.
Re: Oh, he makes me so mad!
Get a rope.
Re: Oh, he makes me so mad!
How about some “cement goloshes”?
Re: Oh, he makes me so mad!
Okay. Also, do either of them own a horse? Oh, and someone draft a contract saying that they will stop having anything to do with Star Trek. And then get a gun.
Re: Oh, he makes me so mad!
Put em in a tank with the aquatic Xinti they showed us. That way they’ll (ahem) sleep wit da fishes.
Good Front
You’ve gotta wonder if Berman really, honestly believe that or if he’s just saying the typical thing. Like when your wife asks you why you didn’t mow the lawn and you say, "I really didn’t think it looked that bad."
In reality, he must know that he totally alienated Trek fans. There must be some people under him that were keeping tabs on the blogs and news groups.
Probably he was just too dumb to know how to make it work right and too high and mighty to turn over the job to someone better until it was too late. And then Manny was probably just his fall-guy.
Re: Good Front
I think you`re completely right.
I work in videogames, and it’s exactly the same. Trust me, we keep an eye on blogs, websites, reviews, etc. Oh hell yes. But when it comes time to give the ‘party line’ in official interviews, we end up with selective memories and skewed justifications.
I think it’s the same here. He HAS to know he fucked up… He’s just not gonna say so on the air. It’s just not to his benefit… Maybe when he comes up with a new series, THEN he can start saying that they fixed everything that was wrong before.
Hey, remember all that Enterprise was supposed to fix about Trek? They started mentioning things that needed to fix ONLY when it was time to pimp the new series.
Re: Good Front
I don’t know, it’s not like Berman fucking up Trek is a new thing. Fans have been bitching about the guy since the latter days of Next Generation.
Re: Good Front
Remember, this is Hollywood. No one EVER fucks up in the
first person, such as “I fucked up”. It is always in the
third person, “They fucked up by
replacing/firing/cancelling me”, “my predecessor fucked up
by shovelling crap at the audience”, “the audience fucked
up by not understanding what we were doing”.
Ego? Never heard of him. Is he that new guy from
Romania?
Oh Well…
I am not only very proud of the shows that we’ve done so far for the fourth season, but the shows that we’ve done that haven’t aired yet are undoubtedly some of the best shows that we’ve produced.
I guess that means we can write off the rest of the fourth season!!
Franchise Fatigue?
Oh, yeah, right. Franchises can only go for so long.
That explains why the James Bond and Star Wars movies are complete box
office failures.
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
To be fair, there are only 5 SW movies, soon to be 6. And James Bond hasn’t had 5 series running for some 25-30 seasons worth total. I don’t think there’s *anything* in the media that has been milked like Star Trek. Though I still think the main problem is that the golden goose handed it over to the brass monkey.
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
Well going by money (ie, merchandizing, licensing, etc), I think Star Wars
has.
Going by hours produced, Doctor Who definitely has: it leaves Star
Trek in
the dust (before you even consider the audio versions). And it
never pandered the way B&B Star Trek has pandered.
Well, unless
you want
to count Leela or that godawful made-for-US-TV movie.
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
Doctor Who has more hours produced that all Star Trek series combined? Are you sure?
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
Dr. Who has been around forever – he’s a Time Lord, after all. There are over 600 episodes and at least two made-for-tv movies – IMDB lists it at 679 episodes of 25 minutes each, but I’m pretty sure that most of the episodes are longer than that (plus there are a number that have been lost over the years).
The best years of the show would be 1974 through 1981, and though I’m really looking forward to the new series it’s just not the same without Tom Baker.
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
Yes, I’m sure. For starters, they made one American made-for-TV movie and
at least 2
theatrical
movies.
But the meat was TV: TV Tome lists 27 seasons of Doctor Who – it took a break
after 1989 (the 26th season),
for political reasons within the BBC. But it’s coming back this year….
And if that wasn’t enough, there are 58 (so far) official licensed
Doctor Who audio
adventures, each taking up two CDs
and starring the same actors as the TV show did. And on top of
that, they also have some spinoffs, centering on the Dalek empire.
When the BBC did a documentary on the making of Doctor Who, the
documentary itself ran 13 episodes.
Franchise fatigue, my ass. It’s a poor workman who blames his tools.
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
TVTome also lists those 27 seasons as being comprised of only 173 episodes…
Of course I do agree that it’s nothing to do with franchise fatigue.
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
That figure is somewhat misleading as it’s counting the number of stories,
not actual episodes. Each Doctor Who story was usually 4 episodes in length
(some were 6, and there were even a couple of seasons that were essentially
single stories, see “Key to TIme” and “Trial of a Timelord”).
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
And while we’re picking nits…
TOS 3 seasons, TNG 7 seasons, DS9 7 seasons, VOY 7 seasons, ENT 4 seasons. That’s 28 seasons of around 20 or more one-hour shows, plus 10 feature films, and countless books, games, and other media. I don’t see any Dr. Who themed attractions in Vegas. I’d have to say as far as genre cash cows go, Trek has to be the most milked by far.
As an aside… I find it apt that Berman would use the golden goose analogy. As you may recall, the fable was of a farmer who had a goose that started laying eggs of solid gold daily… after a time the goose stopped producing for a while. Out of impatience and greed, the farmer killed and opened up the goose only to find no gold and not even a chance of it in the future now that the goose was gone. B&B’s quest for short-term-gains (T&A, bubblegum plots) over long-term storytelling has thoroughly killed Trek.
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
More than Star Wars? I don’t think so, if you count purely on the basis of
licensing and merchandising cash.
Which was my point: by money, Star Wars has been more exploited. By hours
of video produced, Dr. Who has had more. Sure, if you’re going by Vegas
theme attractions, Star Trek has more – but a Vegas theme attraction isn’t
why people are getting tired of Star Trek, most people don’t even know it
exists.
Re: Franchise Fatigue?
Look closer, read the descriptions. Each of those “episodes” is not an
episode, it’s a story – typically made up of 4-8 half-hour parts.
nemesis
Yeah the problem with nemesis is they just drained their cash cow.
It couldn’t be that it SUCKED… HARDCORE..
Just another suit trying to get his.
Re: nemesis
It didn’t suck THAT much. It would have made a half-decent two parter episode.
… ok, yeah, it sucked.
A car chase, with space-dune-buggys, for crying out loud!
Re: nemesis
You know, I saw Nemesis (in the hopes that a Romulan-based plot would be cool – nope, not Romulans, Remans, oh, right, yeah . . . ), and while I have no doubts that the space-dune-buggy chase is in there, I have no recollection of it. None. I don’t recall what plot twist landed them in the chase, nor how they got out of it. It’s a blank! Some sort of repressed memory I suppose. I know I watched the film, but then, inexplicably, I’m in Disneyland for 20 minutes, then, I’m watching the film again. Well, no, not really, but seriously, I don’t remember it at all.
Re: nemesis
The only good point of the movie: the space external SFX scenes were fantastic. I wish that’s all I remember about it :)
Re: nemesis
Of course, they just hah to have an appearance by the space nosferatu in last nights Enterprise too :( *sigh*
Re: nemesis
Well, it’s such a brilliant idea, he HAS to overexploit it! Come on! Vampires… from SPACE! It’s gold, man!
Re: nemesis
Since they were introduced in Nemesis, this helps give them some weight as
it shows that they’ve been there all along. Yes, they were always a bad idea,
but I admire the attempt to apply the to continuity. They were only there as a
nod to Nemesis, and to help legitimize their later presence. The thing I didn’t
appreciate was the introduction of, yet another new species.
Re: nemesis
It’s not continuity, it’s just a retcon. “They were there all along, I swear”
In a perfect world…
THe fan pressure that got the first shuttle named ENTERPRISE would have ensured that B&B would not have been let anywhere NEAR this future history; GR’s vision would have continued; and Captain Sulu would still be at the helm!
he’s an idiot
nuph said
SciFi channel
Will the SciFi channel pick up Enterprise (or the right to a new ‘trek’ show) as they did SGSG1? Hopefully without B&B! SF did a good job of continuing SGSG1 after showtime dropped it. If there is any chance for Enterprise, (or a new trek show) I think it will only be with SF. I wonder if there is any talk with Paramount in that direction?
Re: SciFi channel
No. That will never happen.
Re: SciFi channel
Paramount who owns Star Trek, owns UPN, there’s no reason they’d give it to anyone if they thought it had a snowball’s chance in hell of success. Even if they thought it was a completely lost cause, and someone was chomping at the bit to take it over for wads of cash, I can’t see any business reason they’d do it. Sorry, Charlie. :)
Enterprise Rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I Thought Enterprise was stupid at first. How ever at this time I fell it it Totaly Awsome!! They are doing a great job on it. And cancelling it would be stupid ..
I was hooked after the 3 rd show!
Long Live Enterprise..
Gee DS9 was shit and that lived !