Note: The spelling for the episode title comes from ABC.com. Not sure if it’s misspelled on purpose.
20 replies on “Lost Discussion – “Dues Ex Machina””
This show…
It just get’s better and better. I’m so confused and intrigued by Locke like everyone else. I don’t buy most of the afterlife or purgatory explanations though…
On another note. I hope this show doesn’t last more than 3 seasons. it will get REALLY stale fast. When will American TV learn from the BBC?
Re: This show…
It just get’s better and better. I’m so confused and intrigued by Locke like everyone else. I don’t buy most of the afterlife or purgatory explanations though…
On another note. I hope this show doesn’t last more than 3 seasons. it will get REALLY stale fast. When will American TV learn from the BBC?
I’d just like to say that I’m all excited at watching a show next tuesday that’s been on the BBC since the 50’s ;-)
Re: This show…
It just get’s better and better. I’m so confused and intrigued by Locke like everyone else. I don’t buy most of the afterlife or purgatory explanations though…
I Think That Hatch Is Starting To look More Like A UFO Plot Device, However.
Re: This show…
When will American TV learn from the BBC?
When will we get into the habit of filming 6 episodes on a shoestring budget with special effects that could best be described as *quaint* and calling it a ‘season’? Hopefully never.
Re: This show…
When will American TV learn from the BBC?
When will we get into the habit of filming 6 episodes on a shoestring budget with special effects that could best be described as *quaint* and calling it a ‘season’? Hopefully never.
Amen… American TV has a long way to go (downward) to acheive BBC quality crap.
Re: This show…
Amen… American TV has a long way to go (downward) to acheive BBC quality crap.
When will American television writers (JMS excluded, of course) realize stories are supposed to have a beginning, middle, and end? Did no one else learn that in grade school literature?
Look at Alias, for example. The first couple of seasons were great, but rather than ending this rather limited premise, they beat it to death. In contrast, I think 24 is very British in that a season is a complete story in the traditional sense, with successive seasons being more like sequels than continuations.
Disclaimer: born, raised, and living in the U.S
Re: This show…
Amen… American TV has a long way to go (downward) to acheive BBC quality crap.
When will American television writers (JMS excluded, of course) realize stories are supposed to have a beginning, middle, and end? Did no one else learn that in grade school literature?
Look at Alias, for example. The first couple of seasons were great, but rather than ending this rather limited premise, they beat it to death. In contrast, I think 24 is very British in that a season is a complete story in the traditional sense, with successive seasons being more like sequels than continuations.
Disclaimer: born, raised, and living in the U.S
Sorry I wasn’t more clear this is EXACTLY what I meant. I mean shows should have a clear path of a story.
Re: This show…
Sorry I wasn’t more clear this is EXACTLY what I meant. I mean shows should have a clear path of a story.
it’s okay. *I* knew what you meant.
and I agree. see my post in the latest alias discussion forum stating that they should have stopped the series by now and finished the story. it really looked like they were going to do just that. and should have, since JJ Abrams has shown without doubt that he’s got plenty of stories in him.
Re: This show…
Sorry I wasn’t more clear this is EXACTLY what I meant. I mean shows should have a clear path of a story.
The problem with this isn’t that there’s some clue that American TV producers don’t know vs. British TV. The problem is the basic and fundamentaly different methods by which American TV is funded vs the BBC.
As the BBC is a mostly state funded organization then they have a certain mandate to provide ‘cultural’ programming and usually not enough money to do it with. Thus you get well acted, well scripted stories with no budget for scenery or effects. Programming is more of an internal political construct than ratings based and thus you get as much crap as gold but they’re generally guaranteed their alloted running schedule.
American TV, being privately funded by advertisers whom are charged based on the amount of viewers a program gets are faced with a different problem. A serial like you envision with a beginning, middle and end is hard to finance because it could be excellently written but what if it never pulls in any viewers? The execs are stuck with a large outlay and no hope of recouping their costs. They are usually willing the spend the money on flash effects though, because that tends to keep the audiences happy. If they don’t get enough viewers, however, the audience is left in the middle of a storyline with no resolution in sight. Farscape, The Prisoner, Angel, Babylon5, these were all conceived as complete story arcs and they all were cancelled prior to completing them because they couldn’t sustain their ratings.
The problem with a successfull series is that execs don’t want to replace them if they’re meeting ratings goals because of the risk that their replacements might lose viewers. Thus we get much beating of dead horses.
Currently TV execs order fewer episodes of new series and give them less and less time to prove themselves, however, in what is becoming a bastardized hybrid of the worst parts of the US/British production practices. In the end, most writers are just not capable of writing engaging storylines with deep philosophical meanings that don’t require extensive knowledge of all the pre-existing backplot so as not to drive off casual viewers while writing in discreet stop points so dedicated viewers don’t get left in the lurch if the show is canceled mid-season.
Re: This show…
Sorry I wasn’t more clear this is EXACTLY what I meant. I mean shows should have a clear path of a story.
The problem with this isn’t that there’s some clue that American TV producers don’t know vs. British TV. The problem is the basic and fundamentaly different methods by which American TV is funded vs the BBC.
As the BBC is a mostly state funded organization then they have a certain mandate to provide ‘cultural’ programming and usually not enough money to do it with. Thus you get well acted, well scripted stories with no budget for scenery or effects. Programming is more of an internal political construct than ratings based and thus you get as much crap as gold but they’re generally guaranteed their alloted running schedule.
American TV, being privately funded by advertisers whom are charged based on the amount of viewers a program gets are faced with a different problem. A serial like you envision with a beginning, middle and end is hard to finance because it could be excellently written but what if it never pulls in any viewers? The execs are stuck with a large outlay and no hope of recouping their costs. They are usually willing the spend the money on flash effects though, because that tends to keep the audiences happy. If they don’t get enough viewers, however, the audience is left in the middle of a storyline with no resolution in sight. Farscape, The Prisoner, Angel, Babylon5, these were all conceived as complete story arcs and they all were cancelled prior to completing them because they couldn’t sustain their ratings.
The problem with a successfull series is that execs don’t want to replace them if they’re meeting ratings goals because of the risk that their replacements might lose viewers. Thus we get much beating of dead horses.
Currently TV execs order fewer episodes of new series and give them less and less time to prove themselves, however, in what is becoming a bastardized hybrid of the worst parts of the US/British production practices. In the end, most writers are just not capable of writing engaging storylines with deep philosophical meanings that don’t require extensive knowledge of all the pre-existing backplot so as not to drive off casual viewers while writing in discreet stop points so dedicated viewers don’t get left in the lurch if the show is canceled mid-season.
Babylon 5 does have all five seasons, I have them all on DVD sitting by my TV. They just thought they were going to be cancelled.
Re: This show…
Amen… American TV has a long way to go (downward) to acheive BBC quality crap.
When will American television writers (JMS excluded, of course) realize stories are supposed to have a beginning, middle, and end? Did no one else learn that in grade school literature?
Look at Alias, for example. The first couple of seasons were great, but rather than ending this rather limited premise, they beat it to death. In contrast, I think 24 is very British in that a season is a complete story in the traditional sense, with successive seasons being more like sequels than continuations.
Disclaimer: born, raised, and living in the U.S
It has not yet been determined that lost is not like what you are asking for. I really do hope it has a beginning, middle, and end. I also agree with the 3 seasons max thing, maybe even two. What would be neat, if they want to continue the show, would be to have a new group of lost, under new circumstances for another season.
I am getting very anxious about the reveal. Everyone likes to bash on Matrix: Reloaded and Revolutions as being bad movies, but in reality I think they were good plausible expansions in the Matrix universe, but they weren’t the reveal that people had wanted to see. I.E. the show is much more compelling when you are thinking about what the ramifications might be and don’t know them.
I hope losts reveal on the mysteries of the island is as good as the revalations about the characters.
What I really like about Locke, is how much of a whelp he is back in the real world, vs. his hero/magi status on the island.
I also like how Hurley and the woman on the island (Delenn) both think the island is evil, and Locke thinks its good.
Re: This show…
It just get’s better and better. I’m so confused and intrigued by Locke like everyone else. I don’t buy most of the afterlife or purgatory explanations though…
Whenever I think too much about what could possibly be going on on Lost, I’m reminded of the episode of Felicity (a show from the same creator) that was an homage to one of the most WTF episodes of The Twilight Zone, where there was no possible way you could have guessed what and where the characters really were, until it is revealed.
Re: This show…
It just get’s better and better. I’m so confused and intrigued by Locke like everyone else. I don’t buy most of the afterlife or purgatory explanations though…
Whenever I think too much about what could possibly be going on on Lost, I’m reminded of the episode of Felicity (a show from the same creator) that was an homage to one of the most WTF episodes of The Twilight Zone, where there was no possible way you could have guessed what and where the characters really were, until it is revealed.
this is called the “jar of tang” plot, and is usually considered to have been done PAST death. It’s only redeemable when you have an interesting story surrouding it – as we do here. or, perhaps, in felicity, because of the continuity surrounding. In any case, that may well be what we have here…but I’m leaning toward what I’ve seen in the past with this sort of plotline.
Scary dream
The are few things that give me the creeps, but Locke’s dream did. Boone looking to the sky and saying that line over and over with blood all over him was just creepy, mainly because it made no sense. Then Locke’s mother standing there, then pointing to the sky suddenly. Jerking motions like that are creepy to me (House on Haunted Hill was full of that kind of stuff, as are the Silent Hill games). This show is getting better and better though.
locke
I love how Locke is convinced that the Island itself is somehow “aware”. The writers get to hint and throw out posibilities all while not confirming anything. They’re adding to the mix because they know that’s what keeps the audience wondering and questioning.
Someone mentioned the hatch being a plot device…. it is, and it’s genius. They can take that hatch anywhere and do almost anything with it. In the end it wouldn’t surprise me if it is just some government’s underground powerstation or test lab or something. Until we know, it is a great thing to keep wondering about. Now that I think of it, I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if the hatch was a doorway into an underground tunnel system filled with farcry/doom 3 type experimental rejects etc… or even aliens.
read books like this before
here’s my prediction – based on things I’ve read that remind me of this show: <br /><br /> the "others" on the island that are "sick" because of the black rock have been taken over by a mysterious force. Locke, because he’s giving himself over to the island and not fighting it, becomes able to use that same force in ways that scare the hell out of everyone else on the island if and when they find out about it. jack or sawyer (or both) decide they have to learn to use it too in order to "save" the people on the island – locke manages to take control of the "sick ones" and wants to stay. it’s never made clear whether there’s actually any "evil" or who’s right. most people die before they get off the island. in the end, either jack and what’s-her face or a redeemed sawyer and what’s her face make it off alive, maybe with a supporting group just so it doesn’t feel bleak. I’ve no idea how the baby fits into it, except maybe as a mcguffin that helps one side or the other gain more power because of it’s unique connection to the island. *shrugs*…anyway…just speculation. so far it’s been borne out by the show over the last 3 or 4 eps since I laid it out.
Re: read books like this before
sad, isn’t it, that it’s taking me so long to figure out the supertags?
What Dues Ex Machina Means…
…it means God from machine…
Re: What Dues Ex Machina Means…
…it means God from machine…
Actually Deus Ex Machina is God/Ghost in the machine, often used as a name of a plot device where everything is resolved by an external force.
They named the episode Dues Ex Machina, could possibly mean “two from the machine”, but then again, I never had latin in school :-)
Re: What Dues Ex Machina Means…
Scratch that, abc.com now updated the spelling to Deus (Ghost/God)
This show…
It just get’s better and better. I’m so confused and intrigued by Locke like everyone else. I don’t buy most of the afterlife or purgatory explanations though…
On another note. I hope this show doesn’t last more than 3 seasons. it will get REALLY stale fast. When will American TV learn from the BBC?
Re: This show…
I’d just like to say that I’m all excited at watching a show next tuesday that’s been on the BBC since the 50’s ;-)
Re: This show…
I Think That Hatch Is Starting To look More Like A UFO Plot Device, However.
Re: This show…
When will we get into the habit of filming 6 episodes on a shoestring budget with special effects that could best be described as *quaint* and calling it a ‘season’? Hopefully never.
Re: This show…
Amen… American TV has a long way to go (downward) to acheive BBC quality crap.
Re: This show…
When will American television writers (JMS excluded, of course) realize stories are supposed to have a beginning, middle, and end? Did no one else learn that in grade school literature?
Look at Alias, for example. The first couple of seasons were great, but rather than ending this rather limited premise, they beat it to death. In contrast, I think 24 is very British in that a season is a complete story in the traditional sense, with successive seasons being more like sequels than continuations.
Disclaimer: born, raised, and living in the U.S
Re: This show…
Sorry I wasn’t more clear this is EXACTLY what I meant. I mean shows should have a clear path of a story.
Re: This show…
it’s okay. *I* knew what you meant.
and I agree. see my post in the latest alias discussion forum stating that they should have stopped the series by now and finished the story. it really looked like they were going to do just that. and should have, since JJ Abrams has shown without doubt that he’s got plenty of stories in him.
Re: This show…
The problem with this isn’t that there’s some clue that American TV producers don’t know vs. British TV. The problem is the basic and fundamentaly different methods by which American TV is funded vs the BBC.
As the BBC is a mostly state funded organization then they have a certain mandate to provide ‘cultural’ programming and usually not enough money to do it with. Thus you get well acted, well scripted stories with no budget for scenery or effects. Programming is more of an internal political construct than ratings based and thus you get as much crap as gold but they’re generally guaranteed their alloted running schedule.
American TV, being privately funded by advertisers whom are charged based on the amount of viewers a program gets are faced with a different problem. A serial like you envision with a beginning, middle and end is hard to finance because it could be excellently written but what if it never pulls in any viewers? The execs are stuck with a large outlay and no hope of recouping their costs. They are usually willing the spend the money on flash effects though, because that tends to keep the audiences happy. If they don’t get enough viewers, however, the audience is left in the middle of a storyline with no resolution in sight. Farscape, The Prisoner, Angel, Babylon5, these were all conceived as complete story arcs and they all were cancelled prior to completing them because they couldn’t sustain their ratings.
The problem with a successfull series is that execs don’t want to replace them if they’re meeting ratings goals because of the risk that their replacements might lose viewers. Thus we get much beating of dead horses.
Currently TV execs order fewer episodes of new series and give them less and less time to prove themselves, however, in what is becoming a bastardized hybrid of the worst parts of the US/British production practices. In the end, most writers are just not capable of writing engaging storylines with deep philosophical meanings that don’t require extensive knowledge of all the pre-existing backplot so as not to drive off casual viewers while writing in discreet stop points so dedicated viewers don’t get left in the lurch if the show is canceled mid-season.
Re: This show…
Babylon 5 does have all five seasons, I have them all on DVD sitting by my TV. They just thought they were going to be cancelled.
Re: This show…
It has not yet been determined that lost is not like what you are asking for. I really do hope it has a beginning, middle, and end. I also agree with the 3 seasons max thing, maybe even two. What would be neat, if they want to continue the show, would be to have a new group of lost, under new circumstances for another season.
I am getting very anxious about the reveal. Everyone likes to bash on Matrix: Reloaded and Revolutions as being bad movies, but in reality I think they were good plausible expansions in the Matrix universe, but they weren’t the reveal that people had wanted to see. I.E. the show is much more compelling when you are thinking about what the ramifications might be and don’t know them.
I hope losts reveal on the mysteries of the island is as good as the revalations about the characters.
What I really like about Locke, is how much of a whelp he is back in the real world, vs. his hero/magi status on the island.
I also like how Hurley and the woman on the island (Delenn) both think the island is evil, and Locke thinks its good.
Re: This show…
Whenever I think too much about what could possibly be going on on Lost, I’m reminded of the episode of Felicity (a show from the same creator) that was an homage to one of the most WTF episodes of The Twilight Zone, where there was no possible way you could have guessed what and where the characters really were, until it is revealed.
Re: This show…
this is called the “jar of tang” plot, and is usually considered to have been done PAST death. It’s only redeemable when you have an interesting story surrouding it – as we do here. or, perhaps, in felicity, because of the continuity surrounding. In any case, that may well be what we have here…but I’m leaning toward what I’ve seen in the past with this sort of plotline.
Scary dream
The are few things that give me the creeps, but Locke’s dream did. Boone looking to the sky and saying that line over and over with blood all over him was just creepy, mainly because it made no sense. Then Locke’s mother standing there, then pointing to the sky suddenly. Jerking motions like that are creepy to me (House on Haunted Hill was full of that kind of stuff, as are the Silent Hill games). This show is getting better and better though.
locke
I love how Locke is convinced that the Island itself is somehow “aware”. The writers get to hint and throw out posibilities all while not confirming anything. They’re adding to the mix because they know that’s what keeps the audience wondering and questioning.
Someone mentioned the hatch being a plot device…. it is, and it’s genius. They can take that hatch anywhere and do almost anything with it. In the end it wouldn’t surprise me if it is just some government’s underground powerstation or test lab or something. Until we know, it is a great thing to keep wondering about. Now that I think of it, I wouldn’t be at all disappointed if the hatch was a doorway into an underground tunnel system filled with farcry/doom 3 type experimental rejects etc… or even aliens.
read books like this before
here’s my prediction – based on things I’ve read that remind me of this show: <br /><br />
the "others" on the island that are "sick" because of the black rock have been taken over by a mysterious force. Locke, because he’s giving himself over to the island and not fighting it, becomes able to use that same force in ways that scare the hell out of everyone else on the island if and when they find out about it. jack or sawyer (or both) decide they have to learn to use it too in order to "save" the people on the island – locke manages to take control of the "sick ones" and wants to stay. it’s never made clear whether there’s actually any "evil" or who’s right. most people die before they get off the island. in the end, either jack and what’s-her face or a redeemed sawyer and what’s her face make it off alive, maybe with a supporting group just so it doesn’t feel bleak. I’ve no idea how the baby fits into it, except maybe as a mcguffin that helps one side or the other gain more power because of it’s unique connection to the island. *shrugs*…anyway…just speculation. so far it’s been borne out by the show over the last 3 or 4 eps since I laid it out.
Re: read books like this before
sad, isn’t it, that it’s taking me so long to figure out the supertags?
What Dues Ex Machina Means…
…it means God from machine…
Re: What Dues Ex Machina Means…
Actually Deus Ex Machina is God/Ghost in the machine, often used as a name of a plot device where everything is resolved by an external force.
They named the episode Dues Ex Machina, could possibly mean “two from the machine”, but then again, I never had latin in school :-)
Re: What Dues Ex Machina Means…
Scratch that, abc.com now updated the spelling to Deus (Ghost/God)