7 replies on “TV Discussion – “Children of Dune” Part Three”
I didn’t like the ending
I thought the ending was kinda weak. I think they needed to make it clear that Leto was becoming the emperor and that things were gonna get a lot worse before they got better. There was a perfect moment when Ghanima was talking to Feradyn at the end, and she says that Leto asks her to kill him. Feradyn responds “Why would he want to die?”. Ghanima should’ve replied “Because now he can’t”. They needed to connect what he did with the sandtrout to the whole Golden Path. I didn’t think it came off well.
Otherwise, the entire saga was very well done.
Re: I didn’t like the ending
I like the way they ended it for one reason: Now they HAVE to do God Emperor. It’s the only way the ending for Children, as shown, can work. If they do that, they may as well go all the way to Chapterhouse. :)
Re: I didn’t like the ending
I like the way they ended it for one reason: Now they HAVE to do God Emperor. It’s the only way the ending for Children, as shown, can work. If they do that, they may as well go all the way to Chapterhouse. :)
After the simply terrible quality of the story-telling in that last installment (and to a slightly lesser extent in the second – the first was okay), I don’t want to see any more. I guess I’m hardcore enough that I’d watch it anyway, and maybe it could be better since my expectations are SO low now, but it’s nothing I’d look forward to. Despite enjoying both books this latest miniseries was based on, I found myself not caring one tiny little bit about the character at the end. Hayt/Duncan’s character was neutered (he was far more interesting as a combination spiritualist/mentat), there wasn’t enough information provided so as to care about Alia, Ghanima was stripped of being equal to her brother in almost every way (in the book, it could just as easily have been her pursuing the transformation) and left to be the literal as well as metaphorical “weak sister,” and no meaning was given to The Golden Path. Add into that the lack of any ambiguity as to whether or not “The Preacher” was Paul and taking out virtually all of his impact on the story and Alia in particular, and you’re left with four hours (actually three hours or a bit less) of pointless meandering.
Awful. Simply awful.
Uncharacteristically weak ending
I thought the ending was remarkably weak – they discussed the “Golden Path” for 6 hours, yet never bothered to mention the key points:
The alternative is human extinction.
Leto (or Ghanima or Paul) will live for thousands of years, slowly becoming a hybrid (or chimera) between human and worm.
Leto will ruthlessly suppress all innovation, all change, anything that “rocks the boat”.
Leto will undergo the same “spice agony” as his father and Reverend Mothers, one cell at a time. (Less important than the other points to the story, but it drives home how different his experience is from ours.)
Without this, their motivations seem petty. In fact, that’s one of the key differences between the twins (seeking to save humanity) and Alia (seeking power for its own sake). Paul was just trying to survive, the twins grew up in an imperial household.
I also agree that the final fights were lame, and there should have been at least one scene with Leto on the throne, with Ghami and the Corinno kid somewhere around.
The highlight? Ghami’s wedding dress. :-) It almost makes up for her greeting the Imperial Mother with a bare midriff.
If You Can’t Keep It In Your Pants, Keep It In the Family.
Was I The Only One bugged By The Extent Of The ‘Closeness’ Between The Twins? I Know They Were Close, But The Kissing Towards The End…
Also, I Was Under The Impression The Trout Gave him A Complete Covering That Let Him Slide Across The Sand, Worm Style, Rather Than Just Run, Clark Kent Style.
Re: If You Can’t Keep It In Your Pants, Keep It In the Family.
Was I The Only One bugged By The Extent Of The ‘Closeness’ Between The Twins? I Know They Were Close, But The Kissing Towards The End…
Also, I Was Under The Impression The Trout Gave him A Complete Covering That Let Him Slide Across The Sand, Worm Style, Rather Than Just Run, Clark Kent Style.
I think the fact that they felt (and were made to felt) cut off from the rest of humanity would increase their need to be physically close to other. I will assure those who haven’t read the book that there’s no indication that anything untoward ever happened. :)
As to the running in the desert: It was clearly stated in the book that it was indeed running and I don’t recall any indications in CoD that Leto had any slithering tendencies – God Emperor of Dune, of course, is another matter entirely.
It ends as well as it could end. . .
well, as a hardcore fan of Frank Herbert and a serious skeptic as to the ability of the film medium to recapture the true points of his works, the film worked about as well as a 6 hour version of the texts could work. . .
I mean as far as I am concerned 6 hours could have been spent on each novel, however the main points of both novels were adhered to:in dune Messiah, Paul foresaw the death of Chani and he saw Irulans hand in it; and he saw this as alternative to a worse fate. . .he never saw the birth of 2 children, (and he never said goodbe to chani she was dead upon his arrival at Tabr) but it was Leto he never saw, not Ghanima as the movie would have you believe. . .also he tried to forgive Korba for what he was about to do, and the moment when he names his children is not in the movie and this was a vital image in the book – the last conversation with his friends is an argument over his daughters name. His last act in their collective presence is yet again an act of defiance – he gives his daughter the name of an ill omen, a “spoil of War” Also – the whole play of Hayt telling Paul that he was dangerous and this act consequentialy bonding Paul to him more was never explained. The lack of metal eyes also disturbed me.
However the overall effort was very good. Condensing the information in a way necessary in order to get the main points across worked for an entertaining adaptation at least. The trust Paul had in Alia over any other other besides Chani is at the very least obvious in the movie. The Guild and the B.G. and their reps as they are considered in the novel are presented and dealt with close enough to the novel to give me satisfaction.
In the final two episodes, the ones actually pertaining to Children of Dune, the very beginning of the childrens plight leaves me in awe of the stupidity of the screenwriter. The children were supposed to be 9, not 15. Now I understand the overall need to prsent them as 15 years old so as to give a semi-believable aspect to their abilities, however, the way they seem almost sexual due to their age in they way they physically express their concern for one another is. . .disturbing. The adapted age of the characters of Ghani and Leto should have made the director and writers explore a different avenue in terms of showing their closeness. Also the lack of the “Parent Game” was a loss to the script.
Howe, yet again, the overall value of the representation is far superior to the minor mistakes in the production. The end, which is widely debated, follows the main points if no the letter of Herberts vision – Alia, after being mentally and physically embarassed by Leto II, is offered a crysknife with with to end her life (an obvious appeal to the fremen she was raised as) Although in the novel she tries to kill Leto( and in the movie is able to prevent herslef fromm trying) the point that her “demon” makes her thrust a knife onto his new skin is stated. . .as well as the fact that Ghani is prepared to kill Farad’n but is, after all, taken back by him. . .also, the whole point that Jessica trainds Farad’n and that Leto keeps him alive. . .but more importantly that Alia dies of her own hand in the presence of her family after her demon reveals himself to Jessica as the Baron. . .as well as the fact that Idaho kills Javid after arguing Stilgars position and while in Tabr. . .well the main points are there. . .the sad thing is that the admiration for Idaho that Stilgar held is unexplored. . .as is the the fact that Idaho withdrew formally from service to the Atreides before returning to the Dune from Salusa. . .well; all this and the fact that the entire exchange between Leto and his captures, one of whom was Halleck, was cut very short and this needed addressing as well. . .
but in the end, as someone who works in post production and can see the reason why a shows producer would make these decisions, the value of the final product is A OK with me. . . for a 1/2 sa long time frame as they should have had anyway. . . .
I didn’t like the ending
I thought the ending was kinda weak. I think they needed to make it clear that Leto was becoming the emperor and that things were gonna get a lot worse before they got better. There was a perfect moment when Ghanima was talking to Feradyn at the end, and she says that Leto asks her to kill him. Feradyn responds “Why would he want to die?”. Ghanima should’ve replied “Because now he can’t”. They needed to connect what he did with the sandtrout to the whole Golden Path. I didn’t think it came off well.
Otherwise, the entire saga was very well done.
Re: I didn’t like the ending
I like the way they ended it for one reason: Now they HAVE to do God Emperor. It’s the only way the ending for Children, as shown, can work. If they do that, they may as well go all the way to Chapterhouse. :)
Re: I didn’t like the ending
After the simply terrible quality of the story-telling in that last installment (and to a slightly lesser extent in the second – the first was okay), I don’t want to see any more. I guess I’m hardcore enough that I’d watch it anyway, and maybe it could be better since my expectations are SO low now, but it’s nothing I’d look forward to. Despite enjoying both books this latest miniseries was based on, I found myself not caring one tiny little bit about the character at the end. Hayt/Duncan’s character was neutered (he was far more interesting as a combination spiritualist/mentat), there wasn’t enough information provided so as to care about Alia, Ghanima was stripped of being equal to her brother in almost every way (in the book, it could just as easily have been her pursuing the transformation) and left to be the literal as well as metaphorical “weak sister,” and no meaning was given to The Golden Path. Add into that the lack of any ambiguity as to whether or not “The Preacher” was Paul and taking out virtually all of his impact on the story and Alia in particular, and you’re left with four hours (actually three hours or a bit less) of pointless meandering.
Awful. Simply awful.
Uncharacteristically weak ending
I thought the ending was remarkably weak – they discussed the “Golden Path” for 6 hours, yet never bothered to mention the key points:
Without this, their motivations seem petty. In fact, that’s one of the key differences between the twins (seeking to save humanity) and Alia (seeking power for its own sake). Paul was just trying to survive, the twins grew up in an imperial household.
I also agree that the final fights were lame, and there should have been at least one scene with Leto on the throne, with Ghami and the Corinno kid somewhere around.
The highlight? Ghami’s wedding dress. :-) It almost makes up for her greeting the Imperial Mother with a bare midriff.
If You Can’t Keep It In Your Pants, Keep It In the Family.
Was I The Only One bugged By The Extent Of The ‘Closeness’ Between The Twins? I Know They Were Close, But The Kissing Towards The End…
Also, I Was Under The Impression The Trout Gave him A Complete Covering That Let Him Slide Across The Sand, Worm Style, Rather Than Just Run, Clark Kent Style.
Re: If You Can’t Keep It In Your Pants, Keep It In the Family.
I think the fact that they felt (and were made to felt) cut off from the rest of humanity would increase their need to be physically close to other. I will assure those who haven’t read the book that there’s no indication that anything untoward ever happened. :)
As to the running in the desert: It was clearly stated in the book that it was indeed running and I don’t recall any indications in CoD that Leto had any slithering tendencies – God Emperor of Dune, of course, is another matter entirely.
It ends as well as it could end. . .
well, as a hardcore fan of Frank Herbert and a serious skeptic as to the ability of the film medium to recapture the true points of his works, the film worked about as well as a 6 hour version of the texts could work. . .
I mean as far as I am concerned 6 hours could have been spent on each novel, however the main points of both novels were adhered to:in dune Messiah, Paul foresaw the death of Chani and he saw Irulans hand in it; and he saw this as alternative to a worse fate. . .he never saw the birth of 2 children, (and he never said goodbe to chani she was dead upon his arrival at Tabr) but it was Leto he never saw, not Ghanima as the movie would have you believe. . .also he tried to forgive Korba for what he was about to do, and the moment when he names his children is not in the movie and this was a vital image in the book – the last conversation with his friends is an argument over his daughters name. His last act in their collective presence is yet again an act of defiance – he gives his daughter the name of an ill omen, a “spoil of War” Also – the whole play of Hayt telling Paul that he was dangerous and this act consequentialy bonding Paul to him more was never explained. The lack of metal eyes also disturbed me.
However the overall effort was very good. Condensing the information in a way necessary in order to get the main points across worked for an entertaining adaptation at least. The trust Paul had in Alia over any other other besides Chani is at the very least obvious in the movie. The Guild and the B.G. and their reps as they are considered in the novel are presented and dealt with close enough to the novel to give me satisfaction.
In the final two episodes, the ones actually pertaining to Children of Dune, the very beginning of the childrens plight leaves me in awe of the stupidity of the screenwriter. The children were supposed to be 9, not 15. Now I understand the overall need to prsent them as 15 years old so as to give a semi-believable aspect to their abilities, however, the way they seem almost sexual due to their age in they way they physically express their concern for one another is. . .disturbing. The adapted age of the characters of Ghani and Leto should have made the director and writers explore a different avenue in terms of showing their closeness. Also the lack of the “Parent Game” was a loss to the script.
Howe, yet again, the overall value of the representation is far superior to the minor mistakes in the production. The end, which is widely debated, follows the main points if no the letter of Herberts vision – Alia, after being mentally and physically embarassed by Leto II, is offered a crysknife with with to end her life (an obvious appeal to the fremen she was raised as) Although in the novel she tries to kill Leto( and in the movie is able to prevent herslef fromm trying) the point that her “demon” makes her thrust a knife onto his new skin is stated. . .as well as the fact that Ghani is prepared to kill Farad’n but is, after all, taken back by him. . .also, the whole point that Jessica trainds Farad’n and that Leto keeps him alive. . .but more importantly that Alia dies of her own hand in the presence of her family after her demon reveals himself to Jessica as the Baron. . .as well as the fact that Idaho kills Javid after arguing Stilgars position and while in Tabr. . .well the main points are there. . .the sad thing is that the admiration for Idaho that Stilgar held is unexplored. . .as is the the fact that Idaho withdrew formally from service to the Atreides before returning to the Dune from Salusa. . .well; all this and the fact that the entire exchange between Leto and his captures, one of whom was Halleck, was cut very short and this needed addressing as well. . .
but in the end, as someone who works in post production and can see the reason why a shows producer would make these decisions, the value of the final product is A OK with me. . . for a 1/2 sa long time frame as they should have had anyway. . . .