Buffy Discussion – “Empty Places” (new)

The final four are coming in consecutive weeks. Some shows go out with a bang; this one looks more like it’ll be an earth-shattering kaboom.

18 replies on “Buffy Discussion – “Empty Places” (new)”

  1. quantaman says:

    Good or Bad? (and spoilers of course:)
    I’m not sure if this divide is what the First was aiming for or if it is a clinch in its plans. It was definately trying to drive Buffy over the edge but I suspect it wanted her to take the group with her and that it doesn’t like this split. Also this ties back to earlier in the season (Conversations) when Dawn was told that Buffy would be against her, I still think there was more to that than they let on, remember back then that thing definately did some corporeal damage which is a no-no for the First (unless it was something else working for it).

    Also along that line I’m really getting the feeling that the First is counting on Buffy to do some damage. Note that several times the first has had an opportunity to easily kill Buffy but never followed through, uber-vamp throwing her through wall and the whatshisname today in the school both times she was left unconcious. I don’t think she’ll pull a Faith but it will be interesting to see what she tries to do on her own and what Faith and company now try.

    • fiziko says:

      Re: Good or Bad? (and spoilers of course:)

      Don’t forget to include the inscription on the wall when you’re collecting your evidence. I suspect that I know what corporeal form the army is going to have to defeat.

      • Gcdh says:

        Re: Good or Bad? (and spoilers of course:)
        You want a spoiler well heres one. The inscriptions hiding some kinda ancient sword although ill bet everyone already knew that. If you look at the preview shes always in that black coat with that sword thing im guessing it can be used to hurt the first directly.

        I dunno about u guys but im disappointed in this last episode. With only a couple of episodes left they sure have a lot of unanswered questions and that shouldnt be this close to the end.I think that there should be a bit more action and a little less talking. Hell this was an episode that could’ve been great but it was merely good. Oh and from a realistic standpoint why the hell was therethat demon dude in public traffic behind the wheel . No one seemed to notice and i wanna know where he got his license because if they give em to demons then they’re sure to give em to a 15 year old right?

        Heh good old Faith ya gotta love her. She even tried to be responsible even though we all know that Amanda was probably wasted already. Next week looks like it could be a snore-fest with promises of 3+ love scenes and a lot of talking before Spike tells Bufy about the inscription but of course not before the love scene. Ack and speaking of the all-time wierdo love scene they’re gonna pair up Wood and Faith whats next Andrew and Amanda? Somewhere in these three paragraphs i tried to make a point although i think i failed halfway thru when i mentioned Faith and responsible in the same sentence.

  2. Chupa says:

    Hotpockets!!!
    Uh, what happened to my hotpockets! Anyways I think that next weeks show looks like a lame one as well. I don’t want to see all this “I love you” stuff. I mean Faith and Wood (they do go together well ;p) is just plain nasty. I think Wood just has some kind of fetish for Slayers. The show could be moving a little bit faster now that there is only a few shows left. But it was kinda sad to see everyone, her closes friends, turn on here so to speak. I just wanted to slap the hell out of Kennedy. Man I hate here. I thought she was going to make a pass at Faith while in the kitchen scene. Oh well, let’s just hope the rest of the shows are better.

    • Alexius says:

      Re: Hotpockets!!!

      I think Wood just has some kind of fetish for Slayers.

      Yo, Oedipus! Whatsup, Motherfucker!

  3. UncleJam says:

    Eh…
    Too much talky. How many eps are left and the pace is still glacial. Caleb’s accent is getting worse and what the hell was with his hair? That’s gotta be one of the worst hairstyles I’ve ever seen on a show that has a history of bad hair.

    Does anyone still care about the First? Most boring Big Bad ever.

    Why is everyone leaving Sunnydale? Have we seen anything to suggest that there was all of the craziness they seem to be fleeing from? Apart from that nonsense at the high school a few eps back, I can’t think of anything. It sure would have been nice for the writers to, oh I don’t know, show us this rather than expect us to just accept it. But that’s been a problem in this show for a long time.

    Still, I can’t say I hated the episode entirely. The last few minutes completely redeemed it for me. Finally someone put Buffy in her place and pointed out what a raging bitch she’s been to everyone in her life for almost two years now. She doesn’t trust the others and it’s obvious. She’s so self-righteous about being “the Chosen One” that she has turned from a fun-loving, wise-cracking teenage girl with a sense of responsibility to a nagging, depressing, harridan with no concept that other people have feelings and can contribute to her mission. Everything is always about Buffy. Buffy, Buffy, Buffy. For a long time now I have wanted to see her taken down many pegs and thank god that time has come! Go Giles! Go Anya! Go Dawn! Hell, even Willow and Xander stood up to her. I knew there was still hope for them. (I still want Kennedy and Rona and all of the Slayerettes to die horribly, though.)

    And I’ll echo all of the thoughts about how boring next week’s episode looks. It’s too close to the end and there are too many unanswered question to be wasting time on such drivel.

    • Timeshredder says:

      Re: Eh…

      Right. Now they flee Sunnydale…. But the Bronze is still open.

      The group’s anger and demoting of the Slayer makes sense, but ordering Buffy to leave the house? When, regardless of her pissy attitude, she’s one of the few with real power? When there’s an ultimate evil after her? When, Dawn’s comment notwithstanding, Buffy probably has legal title to the house? Ah, but it gives us a cheap dramatic ending. This is the kind of writing that the show avoided, a long time ago. I really hope the final ep proves worthwhile.

      As for the demon driving in broad daylight, that’s part of a larger problem with keeping their fictional universe consistent. I write about that here, if anyone is interested.

      • UncleJam says:

        Re: Eh…
        You have encapsulated on your page a lot of what has gone wrong with Buffy over the last several seasons. Sometimes it seems like the writers don’t even bother trying to stay consistent within a single episode, let alone a season or the series history.

        Whatever happened to characterization? Hell, I’ll even take inconsistent characterization over none at all. Xander and, to a lesser extent, Willow have become non-entities within the Buffyverse, only around to show how much everyone looks to Buffy as a leader. Which she plainly is not. Giles has become a shadow of his old self, especially this season with the ill-conceived “is he the First?” non-plot. And you know a show is hurting when the network advertises the celebrity guest stars over the actual plot. I mean, c’mon, it’s not even like they got a good celebrity guest or even gave Ashanti anything to do really. Gah.

        This crap can’t end fast enough. But Angel should keep going all summer long! :)

        I just pray that none of the Buffy writing team makes it over to Angel next season.

        • Gcdh says:

          Re: Eh…

          Basically everyone who’s ever critiqued or congratulated Buffy is right. Unfortunatly thats why the show cant get past mediocrity anymore. This season had a whole hell of a lot of promise especially after “Dirty Girls” but they’ve pulled a 180 and went back in the direction of total crap in “Empty Places”. The beginning of the show was pointless and although the mistake Faith makes builds more tension between Buffy and the potentials there was no need for it.

          Here is how i think the episode should have gone. The episode should have started right of the bat with Buffy sending Spike and Warren out they find the sword and bam we are in Buffy’s house and everyone boots Buffy simply on the basis that she got three girls killed and Xander mutilated. Then have Buffy retreat to the high school and go thru an actual fight-scene with Caleb. She then retreats home with a few minor bruises and cuts and the gang welcomes her back. Her and Faith have some dramatic patchup scene in front of everyone and finally agree to work together. Spike arrives and explains what he found. Buffy and Faith go to the church and the episode ends with Faith and Buffy standing in front of the inscription and getting whatever the hell is supposed to be there. The two girls get all happy but all of a sudden Caleb shows himself and gives one of those evil villianous one-liners that fill the fans with dread. The next episode could start with Faith sacrificing herself so Buffy can escape and the seaon finale has a hell of a lot of promise.(The End)

          This plot creates a huge problem for Buffy at the beginning which is later solved, and gives us some action and some heavy drama. We get to see Buffy and Faith combine instead of undermine each other. The episode ends with Buffy and Faith stumbling upon what could be a last hope and with Caleb’s arrival the suspense for the next episode would be built and we’d actually wanna see it. Instead the next episode looks like crap and we have a bunch of random storylines which will be thrown together along with several love scenes agh! P.S. If everyone likes where im going wth this alternate plot then ill write up another one next week and if not then ill just shut the hell up. You can e-mail me at [email protected] or just put up a post.

          • Gcdh says:

            Re: Eh…
            Hi everyone well after reading the summary for next weeks episode it appears i could be wrong about the next episode being crap. If you look at it optimistically, this episodes preview promised action but was filled with drama. Hopefully next weeks episode which looks to be about love and drama will be about action. The preview says, “Faith leads the slayers in a pre-emptive strike on the First after learning some of its plan. Buffy gets into a brawl with Caleb.” Sounds like a lot of action and please let them uncover something good. I also like the use of the word brawl it just gives you more sense of a battle then “surprise attack” or “has an encounter with.” This episode promises blood, action, suspense, and maybe a few surprise deaths or possibly another great big disappointment

            • Kyla Morgan says:

              Re: Eh…
              This episode promises blood, action, suspense, and maybe a few surprise deaths or possibly another great big disappointment

              And that’s good? LOL Okay.
              All Hail faith! Who can be very responsible when she wants to be….
              I’m not really sure what to think about Buffy and the whole ‘casting her out’ thing. I’m just gald Faiths in charge!
              So whats everyone got against Kennedy and the other Potentials?
              On a side note. I did kind of think this episode was lame. Buffy…she had the nerve to punch Faith for no reason! Bitch I say! (Sorry to anyone who likes Buffy) It seems the majority of the B.T.V.S fans I talk to still want Buffy and the rest of the Scooby gang to be in high school. So I says
              although thoose couple of seasons were more creative and certainly less depressing ;what with Tara dying and all that.
              Any season is better then the ones where Buffy was in college. In my opinion cause I just don’t like Riley.
              Besides the Scooby gang can’t be in school forever.
              Cause that would be down right nutty! lol
              I did like the new Sunnydale high school though. Better then Oakridge, my high school. With only a few eps left I don’t see how there going to make Buffy go out with a bang! Any one got any suggestions???

              • fiziko says:

                Re: Eh…

                With only a few eps left I don’t see how there going to make Buffy go out with a bang! Any one got any suggestions???

                Well, Angel is returning to Sunnydale for the last episode…

                Seriously, between Caleb, the Bringers, the army of Ubervamps, the potentials, Faith, Spike, Anya, Willow, Xander (with a vendetta) and Angel, Buffy’s series finale could go out with a bigger all-out battle than the fifth season did. We also know the Initiative is still around, so they could show up. Unfortunately, I’ve heard no casting news about Seth Green, so I doubt we’ll see Oz show up.

                • Kyla Morgan says:

                  Re: Eh…
                  Hay I was just thinking about Oz the other day.
                  Has Willow seen him lately?
                  The initiative? Great. sn(sarcasm notice)
                  Your right it probably will be better the the fith season finale.

                  • Gcdh says:

                    Re: Eh…
                    N’ah Oz can’t show up he’s too busy with Greg the Bunny. Oh wait that show failed miserably never mind haha. I dont not like the potentials i happen to like all but one as a matter of fact. And i agree it would be pretty bad to have the Scoobs in high school this whole time besides the fact that the actors got older i really wouldn’t enjoy the age loophole thats present in so many comics. Sides senior year presented so many memorable instances like when Shnyder met the mayor from hell at graduation…Ah fond memories.

                    I also dont mind Faith being in charge although like i wrote in my alternate episode it woulda been better to see them patch up their differences and work together but hey thats just me. Speaking of my alternate episode no one ever commented on it sheesh is there no appreciation for a budding 15(nearly 16) year old writer? Anyway im leaving to see X-men so that i can put up a post in the other headlines. Vale!

                    • Eldhrin says:

                      Re: Eh…
                      Hmm, your alternate episode… you expect Buffy and Faith to get along fine even with all their history of Faith being evil? Perhaps you expect Buffy to suddenly start being nice to everyone and drop the ‘I’m the Chosen One, I’m so special’ crud (just like the Sour Skittles sponsorship bits from Sky One’s showing of season six last year). There’s no way that would work. Going back to the vineyard, Buffy’s plan, was an insane idea. Sure, there’s something important there, but if they go and get themselves all killed before they even recognise it, they hardly do themselves any favours.

                      Character conflict is a driving force of storytelling, if they were all just happy together and the bad guys were clearly delimited it’d be like Noddy. And Buffy really has been acting like a right b****h lately, her reation to what Faith did was utterly over the top and completely out of order, as is her expectation that they’ll all follow her into their deaths when they can’t see any benefit to be had from it.

                      As you might be able to tell, I liked this episode.

                      N’ah Oz can’t show up he’s too busy with Greg the Bunny. Oh wait that show failed miserably never mind haha. I dont not like the potentials i happen to like all but one as a matter of fact. And i agree it would be pretty bad to have the Scoobs in high school this whole time besides the fact that the actors got older i really wouldn’t enjoy the age loophole thats present in so many comics. Sides senior year presented so many memorable instances like when Shnyder met the mayor from hell at graduation…Ah fond memories.

                      I also dont mind Faith being in charge although like i wrote in my alternate episode it woulda been better to see them patch up their differences and work together but hey thats just me. Speaking of my alternate episode no one ever commented on it sheesh is there no appreciation for a budding 15(nearly 16) year old writer? Anyway im leaving to see X-men so that i can put up a post in the other headlines. Vale!

                    • Gcdh says:

                      Re: Eh…
                      Actually i didnt expect Buffy and Faith to be fine. In my alterante, the episode starts with Buffy already having the information on Caleb and in the hot pocket incident she instead of Giles sends Andrew and Spike. She then calls a meeting in which her and Faith argue about how to beat Caleb and the gang kicks her out. She then goes to the school as she should and gets beat by Caleb as she should. She goes back home and seeing her in such terrible shape the gang allows her re-entry to the house. With the end near and a nearly indomitable opponent the wisest choice would be for Faith and Buffy to shove their pasts aside for awhile and work together. Faith’s new attitude and being good and everything would kinda help that out and so they have a touching conversation in which they table their differences for the moment until the first is beaten. Her bi*** attitude has been resolved by her acceptance of Faith as an ally and not an underling.The rest of my episode should be understandable so i wont go into it Buffy’s reaction to Faith was not because she took the girls out drinking but what she was saying. Her words played on Buffy’s guilt and she even states the names of the three girls that Buffy got killed. Even though Faith’s opinion is correct it was not at all surprising for Buffy to hit her.

                    • Eldhrin says:

                      Re: Eh…
                      Right…

                      Something else just occurred to me. Fighting Caleb is comparable to fighting Glory, right? So firstly, why has nobody mentioned Glory as a sort of moral booster, because they whupped her a** big time. And secondly, where’s that troll god hammer they used on Glory? I doubt Caleb would like being hit by that…

                      Continuity, honestly. I suppose the hammer’s buried under the wreckage of Glory’s Dawn-bleeding tower.

                    • Gcdh says:

                      Re: Eh…

                      Something else just occurred to me. Fighting Caleb is comparable to fighting Glory, right? So firstly, why has nobody mentioned Glory as a sort of moral booster, because they whupped her a** big time. And secondly, where’s that troll god hammer they used on Glory? I doubt Caleb would like being hit by that…

                      Thats a good point i was actually thinking about that hammer a few days ago but that was in the magic shop and willow destroyed all that when she went all big bad last season. Also Glory was only suceeptable to the hammer in the first place because of that counter-spell Willow used and Willow isnt in shape to do something like that anymore. Anyway what i think the inscription contains is a sword just like that hammer because (and i believe i’ve gone through this before) Buffy’s always holding that sword and wearing the black trenchcoat on the previews of next weeks episode for the past 3 weeks

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