Battlestar Galactica: Downloaded

Two resurrected Cylons on Caprica have trouble adjusting to their new lives, while on Galactica, Sharon’s pregnancy develops complications.

Cast

James Callis as Dr. Gaius Baltar
Edward James Olmos as Commander Adama
Mary McDonnell as President Laura Roslin
Katee Sackhoff as Kara “Starbuck” Thrace
Jamie Bamber as Lee “Apollo” Adama
Michael Hogan as Col. Tigh
Tricia Helfer as Number 6
Grace Park as Sharon “Boomer” Valerii

Tahmoh Penikett as Helo
Aaron Douglas as CPO Galen Tyrol
Lucy Lawless as Number 3

Synopsis

On Caprica, two resurrected Cylons are having difficulty coping with their experiences: the Number Six who died in Baltar’s house during the initial attack, and the Sharon who died on Galactica after shooting Adama. In the mean time, on Galactica, the other Sharon’s pregnancy has complications.

High Points

  • Baltar’s first appearance
  • What this episode means for our understanding of the Cylons

Low Point

To be absolutely honest, I can’t think of one.

The Scores

This is pretty original. Not totally new — one could argue quite effectively that Six and Eight are suffereing from something akin to Stockholm Syndrome, which has definitely been seen before — but the Cylon society is rather unusual, and this exploration of it shows that up more than we would normally see. Five out of six.

There was one slight problem with the effects this week which did spoil it for me a bit. Although they usually do an excellent job, the Cylon centurion in the basement was far more fake-looking than normal, as if the lighting didn’t quite match its surroundings. The space shots were as good as ever, of course. Four out of six.

The story is a cracker. Lots of new information for us about the Cylons and how they operate and even some tantalising hints about their real agenda. We also see the progression of the Cylon/human baby story, in a fashion which is mildly predictable but which will strengthen that plotline for quite a while to come. There’s plenty to keep us going for the rest of the season here, even discounting the other plot threads not touched on this week. Six out of six.

This episode delivers a strong emotional response, as we are invited to feel sympathy for just about everybody except Three. It doesn’t sound subtle, but it is a natural outgrowth of a well-produced and well-acted story. Five out of six.

The acting was once more impressive. The true stars of this episode are Lucy Lawless, Grace Park and Tricia Helfer. This is Lawless’ second appearance in Galactica, and this time I completely forgot that she was Xena, that she is a guest star… she was simply the character. Grace Park, we’ve seen, has improved significantly since the start of season one and this episode saw her reach a new high. Playing two different versions of the same character can’t be easy, but Park and Helfer both manage it superbly. Six out of six.

We revisit Caprica, giving the production team a chance to show off (and presumably a large budget). They don’t fail to deliver, giving us the slightly strange colour cast to the sunlight we remember from Starbuck’s sojurn on the planet (although it now appears slightly lessened, presumably as the planet continues to recover from the attack), and everything that identifies it to us as Caprica. I was particularly pleased to see that the resistance are more or less exactly as we left them, but with slightly tattier clothes. Six out of six.

Overall I have to give this landmark episode six out of six. It’s going to change our perspective on future happenings, and give rise to some direct consequences which will be very interesting to watch.

And that gives Download a grand total of thirty-seven out of forty-two.

89 replies on “Battlestar Galactica: Downloaded”

  1. Jethro says:

    Best Episode EVER
    Hands up everyone who thought Baltar was a cylon for a second (;

    This has got to be one of the best plot twists ever. Six has a Baltar in HER head! That’s. Just. Fantastic.

    My (sad) thought is that the ‘cylon rebelion’ will be completely squashed… but it would be very very nice if humans and cylons learned to live together in peace.

    I have to say, though, whoever wrote the adaptive program that runs on skin-job cylons is a friggin’ genius (:

    • Damien says:

      Baltar?!?

      Hands up everyone who thought Baltar was a cylon for a second (;

      I must admit that after he popped up I’m still very confused over him, and still am not convinced that he’s not a cylon. There’s something very strange going on, I was wondering if it was that both of them got so close that their software got frazzled, implanting part of one in the other.

      Damien

      • Cerberus7 says:

        Re: Baltar?!?
        Baltar being a Cylon completely undermines the essence of his character and the circumstances that placed him where he is. I will hurt somebody if that turns out to be true. Something is definitly stinky about those two, though, and I have a hunch. I’m just going to keep it to myself. :)

      • Jethro says:

        Re: Baltar?!?

        and still am not convinced that he’s not a cylon.

        As others have pointed out, if he is a cylon, why did they need Six to seduce him and gain access to the caprica defense thing?

        • theangrymob says:

          Re: Baltar?!?

          As others have pointed out, if he is a cylon, why did they need Six to seduce him and gain access to the caprica defense thing?

          Exactly. I keep a running list in my head of people I’m fairly certain are NOT cylons. Basically anyone a cylon spends any "quality" time with or anyone in an extremely high position.

          My list of non-Cylons (confident)

          Baltar: Six spent all that time seducing him to gain access to Caprica’s defense systems. If he was a cylon, it would be an exercise in redundency.

          Helo: Fathered Sharons baby. We know this is something cylons can’t do.

          Tyrol: A mix of the two above.

          Adm. Adama: If he were a cylon, he would just have the fleet jump into the middle of eight basestars and that’d be the end of it (Adm. Cain was also on this list for that same reason). Also a sleeper agent wouldn’t have tried to kill him.

          My list of pretty-sure-they’re not toasters

          President Roslin: Too much history as a public figure and the cancer.

          Starbuck: If she were a sleeper agent, she wouldn’t have gotten into that knock-down dragout with Six back on Caprica. Also, she seems to have the exact opposite reaction to Cylon Raiders as Sharon did.

          Col. Tigh: Too much history with Adama.

          • dram says:

            Re: Baltar?!?

            Adm. Adama: If he were a cylon, he would just have the fleet jump into the middle of eight basestars and that’d be the end of it (Adm. Cain was also on this list for that same reason). Also a sleeper agent wouldn’t have tried to kill him.

            I think we might find that Adm. Cain is a Cylon. She did an awefully good job at killing people by stripping their ships and stranding them, and then she did a fairly good job of nearly destroying the fleet after she joined up with the Galactica.

            A question I’ve had ever since the Pegasus showed up is how did it survive the Cylon attack. All of the other ships (with the exception of the Galactica) were brought down by a Cylon computer virus. Because the Galactica didn’t have any computer networks to trasmit the virus, it survived, but the same can’t said about the Pegasus.

        • fontosaurus says:

          Re: Baltar?!?

          and still am not convinced that he’s not a cylon.

          As others have pointed out, if he is a cylon, why did they need Six to seduce him and gain access to the caprica defense thing?

          Simple logistics of having spies/saboteurs. If you can have a pair of them in-place, you have redundancy in case one of them fails in their mission. Even better if they don’t know about each other.

          Baltar can still be a toaster. His "trigger" could be such that if Six were to be caught before she could sabotage the software on the defense mainframe, then he would do the work himself. Hell, Boomer didn’t have any idea she was a Cylon until the "Water" episode, and even then she only suspected. Sometime during the Nuke-The-Basestar Mission, something triggered her.

          Having Six do the damage gives Baltar some level of cushion should he find a way to survive the attack and have accusations levelled at him. Prior to the war, no one knew about the biological Cylons, and that’s a bit less damning of a sell-out. Serious, but enough that humanity’s best mind might not get blown out an airlock for it.

          Also, we never see Baltar survive the attack. The shockwave killed Six, as we’ve discovered. The next time we see Baltar, he’s running through a field toward Boomer/Helo’s raptor.

          (I’m with the person who was confident that Helo was not a Cylon, however — the radiation poisoning is enough to convince me, especially when you have bio-toasters roaming Caprica like it was Club Med.)

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: Best Episode EVER

      Hands up everyone who thought Baltar was a cylon for a second (;

      This has got to be one of the best plot twists ever. Six has a Baltar in HER head! That’s. Just. Fantastic.

      *raises hand* …just for a second. That was probably my favorite part of the whole episode, maybe even the series. Although, I think it adds more weight to Baltar’s Six being just his imagination (and not Cylon projection, for example), as this Baltar can’t be much more than Caprica Six’s imagination.

      I also really liked the way Caprica Six killed Three, figuring that with 36 other Cylons in queue, they’d have 39 minutes to get away. (Are my numbers right? That sounds like a very rapid resurrection process.)

      I do have one low point, though. If that blast is going to take out a toaster AND a building, there’s no way Anders would survive simply by hiding behind SexyMom’s car. It seemed very contrived to keep him alive, but since Caprica Six and "Adama" Eight let him go, it does open up the possibility of support for the Cylon coup.

      • J_W_W says:

        Re: Best Episode EVER

        Hands up everyone who thought Baltar was a cylon for a second (;

        This has got to be one of the best plot twists ever. Six has a Baltar in HER head! That’s. Just. Fantastic.

        *raises hand* …just for a second. That was probably my favorite part of the whole episode, maybe even the series. Although, I think it adds more weight to Baltar’s Six being just his imagination (and not Cylon projection, for example), as this Baltar can’t be much more than Caprica Six’s imagination.

        I also really liked the way Caprica Six killed Three, figuring that with 36 other Cylons in queue, they’d have 39 minutes to get away. (Are my numbers right? That sounds like a very rapid resurrection process.)

        I do have one low point, though. If that blast is going to take out a toaster AND a building, there’s no way Anders would survive simply by hiding behind SexyMom’s car. It seemed very contrived to keep him alive, but since Caprica Six and "Adama" Eight let him go, it does open up the possibility of support for the Cylon coup.

        That was 36 hours to get away. An hour per regeneration, not a minute.

        • syagrius says:

          Re: Best Episode EVER

          That was 36 hours to get away. An hour per regeneration, not a minute.

          You are right about the 36 hours not 36 minutes but they are not planning on getting away. They are going to use their celebrity/hero status to speak out against the current cylon plan/regime, whatever that is. I guess something along the lines of, genocide is wrong, let’s all just get along. At the end of the 36 hours they either have drummed up enough support to protect them when #8 gets revived or they get "boxed", their memory put in storage, permanently, never to be revived.

          **********

          Now for a big long post about Baltar and Six.

          The whole Baltar thing threw me. The fact that they see each other in Caprica-Six’s case may be poetic license. She is just thinking "what would Baltar say" and projecting that onto this figment of her imagination. The actual ideas are her own, they are just what her idealized notion of what Baltar would say. The fact that her imagined Baltar behaves and thinks differently than the real one reflects that she really has no idea of what Baltar would say except through past experience filtered through her idealized image of him as her lover. Her imagined Baltar does not physically interact with her (through controlling her muscles etc.) like Baltar’s Six does.

          Baltar on the other hand must be a complete kook. If the Six in his head isn’t really there and is just a memory, a manifestation of his guilt at helping to slaughter humanity combined with his love of Six then his case is one for the psychology books.

          I guess, since he is a scientist he could imagine that a chip could be possible. Then subconsciuosly he gives the imaginary Six the power to control him that he imagines a real chip would give her. But there is no chip. When she beats the crap out of him it is just himself punishing himself for the slaughter of millions. He ends up helping the cylons because his guilt makes him think that the cylons must be in the right otherwise he’s done unforgivable things. Of course he KNOWS he has done unforgivable things but doesn’t want to blame himself. He thinks it must be that he is being controlled by outside forces, either this chip or GOD himself.

          That is if the imaginary partners are both being generated by the same process…(ab)normal psychology. They may both be seperate phemnomena but are being presented to us in the same way. This would be unfair of the writers I think.

          If they are both the same thing then it cannot be a physical chip, or some reprogramming done by sexually transmitted nanobots (STN’s): Caprica-Six’s body was completely destroyed.

          The imaginary Balter cannot be a result of a physical device. It could be transmitted along with her memories (her "soul") when she gets resurrected but at what point does this cross over from being programming to being a psychological disease? If it is purely programming then Baltar has been programmed also and must be a cylon, as someone pointed out, in deep cover so that neither Six or himself know he is a cylon. I cannot accept that.

          * I think Baltar is not a cylon.
          * There is no chip. Baltar is nuttier than a forest full of oak trees. The guilt for loving a cylon and helping her wipe out humanity has driven him insane.
          * Six’s Baltar is not the same things as Baltar’s Six. Or it is but it is a difference of degree. Six’s Baltar is a remembrance of an old lover and a face on her conscience. She sympathises with humans because she loved Baltar and puts words in his mouth to tell herself what to do.
          * These beliefs can be proven wrong if the imaginary Baltar or Six provide information that the hosts could not have known otherwise (this is distinct from them coming to a conclusion by imagining "what would Baltar/Six say about this" and then imagining these words coming out of the ir imaginary lover’s mouths.)
          * These beliefs can also be proven wrong if we see a bunch of Baltar clones walking around. I am afraid (actually afraid) that we will find out Baltar is a cylon at some point.

          Well, I’ll keep watching to see how they handle just this point.

          • Damien says:

            Re: Best Episode EVER

            I guess, since he is a scientist he could imagine that a chip could be possible. Then subconsciuosly he gives the imaginary Six the power to control him that he imagines a real chip would give her. But there is no chip.

            The problem with the whole "she’s just him going crazy" part is that she *did* physically appear in a season 1 episode when she told everyone that he was a traitor and had a photo of him doing something naughty (forget what); the photo was later debunked but IIRC at least half a dozen other characters acknowledged her physical presence.

            I’m confused :-)

            Damien

            • Jethro says:

              Re: Best Episode EVER

              The problem with the whole "she’s just him going crazy" part is that she *did* physically appear in a season 1 episode when she told everyone that he was a traitor and had a photo of him doing something naughty (forget what); the photo was later debunked but IIRC at least half a dozen other characters acknowledged her physical presence.

              I don’t remember any real proof that that Six was Baltar’s Imaginary Six.

            • kokopelli says:

              Re: Best Episode EVER

              The problem with the whole "she’s just him going crazy" part is that she *did* physically appear in a season 1 episode when she told everyone that he was a traitor and had a photo of him doing something naughty….

              This may be the same Six that Baltar gave the nuke to a few episodes ago.

              • quantaman says:

                Re: Best Episode EVER

                The problem with the whole "she’s just him going crazy" part is that she *did* physically appear in a season 1 episode when she told everyone that he was a traitor and had a photo of him doing something naughty….

                This may be the same Six that Baltar gave the nuke to a few episodes ago.

                The Six that Baltar gave the nuke to was the one from Pegasus so she couldn’t be the one that showed up in season 1.

                • vandemar says:

                  Re: Best Episode EVER

                  This may be the same Six that Baltar gave the nuke to a few episodes ago.

                  The Six that Baltar gave the nuke to was the one from Pegasus so she couldn’t be the one that showed up in season 1.

                  Also, Pegasus’ Six and "Shelley Godfrey" Six have completely different personalities and agendas. They do, however, seem to share the same ability to vanish out of sight mysteriously.

        • syagrius says:

          Re: Best Episode EVER

          That was 36 hours to get away. An hour per regeneration, not a minute.

          You are right about the 36 hours not 36 minutes but they are not planning on getting away. They are going to use their celebrity/hero status to speak out against the current cylon plan/regime, whatever that is. I guess something along the lines of, genocide is wrong, let’s all just get along. At the end of the 36 hours they either have drummed up enough support to protect them when #8 gets revived or they get "boxed", their memory put in storage, permanently, never to be revived.

          **********

          Now for a big long post about Baltar and Six.

          The whole Baltar thing threw me. The fact that they see each other in Caprica-Six’s case may be poetic license. She is just thinking "what would Baltar say" and projecting that onto this figment of her imagination. The actual ideas are her own, they are just what her idealized notion of what Baltar would say. The fact that her imagined Baltar behaves and thinks differently than the real one reflects that she really has no idea of what Baltar would say except through past experience filtered through her idealized image of him as her lover. Her imagined Baltar does not physically interact with her (through controlling her muscles etc.) like Baltar’s Six does.

          Baltar on the other hand must be a complete kook. If the Six in his head isn’t really there and is just a memory, a manifestation of his guilt at helping to slaughter humanity combined with his love of Six then his case is one for the psychology books.

          I guess, since he is a scientist he could imagine that a chip could be possible. Then subconsciuosly he gives the imaginary Six the power to control him that he imagines a real chip would give her. But there is no chip. When she beats the crap out of him it is just himself punishing himself for the slaughter of millions. He ends up helping the cylons because his guilt makes him think that the cylons must be in the right otherwise he’s done unforgivable things. Of course he KNOWS he has done unforgivable things but doesn’t want to blame himself. He thinks it must be that he is being controlled by outside forces, either this chip or GOD himself.

          That is if the imaginary partners are both being generated by the same process…(ab)normal psychology. They may both be seperate phemnomena but are being presented to us in the same way. This would be unfair of the writers I think.

          If they are both the same thing then it cannot be a physical chip, or some reprogramming done by sexually transmitted nanobots (STN’s): Caprica-Six’s body was completely destroyed.

          The imaginary Balter cannot be a result of a physical device. It could be transmitted along with her memories (her "soul") when she gets resurrected but at what point does this cross over from being programming to being a psychological disease? If it is purely programming then Baltar has been programmed also and must be a cylon, as someone pointed out, in deep cover so that neither Six or himself know he is a cylon. I cannot accept that.

          * I think Baltar is not a cylon.
          * There is no chip. Baltar is nuttier than a forest full of oak trees. The guilt for loving a cylon and helping her wipe out humanity has driven him insane.
          * Six’s Baltar is not the same things as Baltar’s Six. Or it is but it is a difference of degree. Six’s Baltar is a remembrance of an old lover and a face on her conscience. She sympathises with humans because she loved Baltar and puts words in his mouth to tell herself what to do.
          * These beliefs can be proven wrong if the imaginary Baltar or Six provide information that the hosts could not have known otherwise (this is distinct from them coming to a conclusion by imagining "what would Baltar/Six say about this" and then imagining these words coming out of the ir imaginary lover’s mouths.)
          * These beliefs can also be proven wrong if we see a bunch of Baltar clones walking around. I am afraid (actually afraid) that we will find out Baltar is a cylon at some point.

          Well, I’ll keep watching to see how they handle just this point.

          • Nakhti says:

            Re: Best Episode EVER

            * These beliefs can be proven wrong if the imaginary Baltar or Six provide information that the hosts could not have known otherwise (this is distinct from them coming to a conclusion by imagining "what would Baltar/Six say about this" and then imagining these words coming out of the ir imaginary lover’s mouths.)

            If I remember correctly, there are a few cases where Baltar’s Six gives Baltar information. Wasn’t there a case in the mini-series, or early in the tv series where Six tells Baltar of the location of a bomb or some type of device hidden on Galactica?

            • Antti Helin says:

              Re: Best Episode EVER
              You are right, there was that small device on the CIC. Also there was the bombing run on the Cylon refinery on an asteroid, where Baltar just magically picked the right place to target. It may have been mere coincidence and luck on his part, but I got the vibe that Baltar’s Six helped him make the right choice to bolster Baltar’s position and that way advance the Plan.

              The first series feels so long ago, I really need to crack open the box set. :)

              • syagrius says:

                Re: Best Episode EVER

                You are right, there was that small device on the CIC. Also there was the bombing run on the Cylon refinery on an asteroid, where Baltar just magically picked the right place to target. It may have been mere coincidence and luck on his part, but I got the vibe that Baltar’s Six helped him make the right choice to bolster Baltar’s position and that way advance the Plan.

                The first series feels so long ago, I really need to crack open the box set. :)

                Me again. Sorry for the double post.

                I agree that the transponder device they found on Galactica in the CIC was info Baltar could not have come up with on his own. The bombing run and the cylon detection device that uses a nuke were two other things that I thought were cylon supplied but may have just been Baltar’s subconscious.

                So the Cylons definitely gave him the location of the device. She probably gave him the other info also.

                This info could have come from some kind of implanted device. This is what we have been calling a "chip" because that is what Six called it. The scan for a chip showed no chip but medical scans of Cylons show no unusual hardware, they look human. I assume human form cylons use some kind of nanobots that are undetectable except with Baltar’s nuke device. Nanobots would also explain how the babies blood cured President Roslyn’s cancer. But nanobots often end up like magic fairy dust in stories, they can do anything. I don’t like them. But one advantage is that the "chip" would not have to be implanted. It could be sexually transmitted while Six and Baltar were together on Caprica.

                The another possiblilty is that Baltar is a Cylon as other people have commented. I believe it is either a chip or Baltar is a Cylon. There are other possibilities that I would consider bad writing:

                * Baltar wasn’t a Cylon but the magic fairy dust nanobots are slowly taking over his brain, reprogramming him and he will efectively BE a cylon by the end of the season. The reason this is bad is that then the Cylons wouldn’t need to wipe out humanity they could just assimilate them like the Borg do in Star Trek (using magic fairy dust nanobots). The writers may go this way though because then President Roslyn might get assimilated in the future as someone on this site previously speculated.

                * Baltar is crazy as I said before. If it weren’t for the device in CIC I would say this is the truth. Given the device in the CIC then the writers screwed up. They can explain away the bombing run and asking for a nuke but they cannot explain away finding the device.

                * The information about the device, and other info may have been implanted via post-hypnotic suggestion. Baltar is like someone from the movie "The Manchurian Candidate" programmed like a Cylon or like someone with a chip in his head. The difference is that Baltar could break this conditioning and rehabilitate himself, at heart he is a human.

                It would be simplest to assume that Baltar is a Cylon. Cylons can be programmed, triggered and controlled. Sharon acted like a Manchurian candidate. Saying there is a chip or Baltar is brainwashed is just a more complicated way coming up with the same behavior you would get if Baltar was a Cylon.

                Then again, maybe the Cylons have competing research programs on using humanity. Some use brainwashing, some use hybridization (the baby),maybe they’ll test assimilation, maybe some use chips. The fleet is kept alive just to provide experimental subjects. The fleet is small enough so that it is not a real threat but just barely large enough to supply a population of test subjects.

                Nah. Occam’s razor. Baltar’s a Cylon or the writers are cheating.

                • J_W_W says:

                  Re: Best Episode EVER

                  You are right, there was that small device on the CIC. Also there was the bombing run on the Cylon refinery on an asteroid, where Baltar just magically picked the right place to target. It may have been mere coincidence and luck on his part, but I got the vibe that Baltar’s Six helped him make the right choice to bolster Baltar’s position and that way advance the Plan.

                  The first series feels so long ago, I really need to crack open the box set. :)

                  Me again. Sorry for the double post.

                  I agree that the transponder device they found on Galactica in the CIC was info Baltar could not have come up with on his own. The bombing run and the cylon detection device that uses a nuke were two other things that I thought were cylon supplied but may have just been Baltar’s subconscious.

                  So the Cylons definitely gave him the location of the device. She probably gave him the other info also.

                  This info could have come from some kind of implanted device. This is what we have been calling a "chip" because that is what Six called it. The scan for a chip showed no chip but medical scans of Cylons show no unusual hardware, they look human. I assume human form cylons use some kind of nanobots that are undetectable except with Baltar’s nuke device. Nanobots would also explain how the babies blood cured President Roslyn’s cancer. But nanobots often end up like magic fairy dust in stories, they can do anything. I don’t like them. But one advantage is that the "chip" would not have to be implanted. It could be sexually transmitted while Six and Baltar were together on Caprica.

                  The another possiblilty is that Baltar is a Cylon as other people have commented. I believe it is either a chip or Baltar is a Cylon. There are other possibilities that I would consider bad writing:

                  * Baltar wasn’t a Cylon but the magic fairy dust nanobots are slowly taking over his brain, reprogramming him and he will efectively BE a cylon by the end of the season. The reason this is bad is that then the Cylons wouldn’t need to wipe out humanity they could just assimilate them like the Borg do in Star Trek (using magic fairy dust nanobots). The writers may go this way though because then President Roslyn might get assimilated in the future as someone on this site previously speculated.

                  * Baltar is crazy as I said before. If it weren’t for the device in CIC I would say this is the truth. Given the device in the CIC then the writers screwed up. They can explain away the bombing run and asking for a nuke but they cannot explain away finding the device.

                  * The information about the device, and other info may have been implanted via post-hypnotic suggestion. Baltar is like someone from the movie "The Manchurian Candidate" programmed like a Cylon or like someone with a chip in his head. The difference is that Baltar could break this conditioning and rehabilitate himself, at heart he is a human.

                  It would be simplest to assume that Baltar is a Cylon. Cylons can be programmed, triggered and controlled. Sharon acted like a Manchurian candidate. Saying there is a chip or Baltar is brainwashed is just a more complicated way coming up with the same behavior you would get if Baltar was a Cylon.

                  Then again, maybe the Cylons have competing research programs on using humanity. Some use brainwashing, some use hybridization (the baby),maybe they’ll test assimilation, maybe some use chips. The fleet is kept alive just to provide experimental subjects. The fleet is small enough so that it is not a real threat but just barely large enough to supply a population of test subjects.

                  Nah. Occam’s razor. Baltar’s a Cylon or the writers are cheating.

                  I think there’s another possibility. What if a human consciousness can actaully occupy a cylon body? What if the differences are now so insignificant that it can happen? Then what effect does a nuclear blast have on the transmission of consciousness for cylons? Would it be possilbe for cylon consciousness to infect Baltar during transmission and potentially for Baltars consciousness to infect Six during the blast(a large EMP). I know its a little "out of body, aura" type of conjecture I have going on here, but I think it may be somewhere the writers might try to go.

                  Baltar can’t be a cylon, because then he wouldn’t be a traitor, and all the drama of Baltar comes from the fact that he is a traitor. He also can’t become a cylon since that would also not make him a true traitor. Actually I take that back a little, he could "choose" to download to a cylon body of his own free will and still maintain his traitor status.

                  • obscurion says:

                    Re: Best Episode EVER

                    I think there’s another possibility. What if a human consciousness can actaully occupy a cylon body? What if the differences are now so insignificant that it can happen?

                    The other end of that question: can cylons survive without the cylon bits?

                • valen1260 says:

                  Re: Best Episode EVER

                  Nah. Occam’s razor. Baltar’s a Cylon or the writers are cheating.

                  Or both.

                  Actually, I’m putting stock in Baltar’s brilliance. Maybe he’s just so fracking smart, he can do things like notice the CIC device without noticing it. Then, his guilted subconscious steps in, attributes it to the Cylons supplying info, and lets himself further believe that he is under their influence.

                  It’s been a while since I’ve seen the episodes, but I think it fully within reason that a man of Baltar’s intellect could guess at a target and still have a pretty good chance of getting the right one. Also, he might subconsciously know that he needs a nuke for testing. So, basically, I think we haven’t seen anything (or, at any rate, nothing in this thread has been brought up to remind me) that Baltar couldn’t have known on some level, without outside info.

                • radu_floricica says:

                  Re: Best Episode EVER

                  Nah. Occam’s razor. Baltar’s a Cylon or the writers are cheating.

                  Hope it’s not too late for a post.

                  I thought of another possibility. Everybody says Baltar is a fraking genious right? What if he really is? Cylons were built by humans many many years ago, so probably a human, a very smart human in a very high position could duplicate their technology. And even do better in some ways. Like beeing able to create a persona and put it in a cylon. Or in his own head, over his own memories.
                  Why would he do that and then forget about it? Maybe so he wouldn’t be found out by the cylons. Forgetting all about the coming invasion would be very dangerous for him, so he puts all the relevant info in six’s persona and lets her guide him. This would explain almost everything… except his final motives of course.

              • obscurion says:

                Re: Best Episode EVER

                You are right, there was that small device on the CIC. Also there was the bombing run on the Cylon refinery on an asteroid, where Baltar just magically picked the right place to target. It may have been mere coincidence and luck on his part, but I got the vibe that Baltar’s Six helped him make the right choice to bolster Baltar’s position and that way advance the Plan.

                The first series feels so long ago, I really need to crack open the box set. :)

                There is a flash shot in the first season that shows Caprica-Six’s bag with the same device in it. Baltar mentions it when talking to Six in the CIC.

              • obscurion says:

                Re: Best Episode EVER

                You are right, there was that small device on the CIC. Also there was the bombing run on the Cylon refinery on an asteroid, where Baltar just magically picked the right place to target. It may have been mere coincidence and luck on his part, but I got the vibe that Baltar’s Six helped him make the right choice to bolster Baltar’s position and that way advance the Plan.

                The first series feels so long ago, I really need to crack open the box set. :)

                Whoops, missed a point. Six also tells Baltar that something bad is going to happen and he must get off the ship. This may have only been a way to get him onto the planet and to the crib scene. The other possibility is that she knew of Gaida’s "accidental" navigation error that allowed the virus in that let the centurions run amok…

      • Jethro says:

        Re: Best Episode EVER

        it does open up the possibility of support for the Cylon coup.

        My problem is, I don’t see how a human could ever trust a cylon. Nevermind what cylons as a race (?) have done in the past, but there’s always sleeper-agents. Someone show me how I can know that they won’t figure out a way to remote-reprogram Caprica-Six.

        • nkuzmik says:

          Re: Best Episode EVER

          it does open up the possibility of support for the Cylon coup.

          My problem is, I don’t see how a human could ever trust a cylon. Nevermind what cylons as a race (?) have done in the past, but there’s always sleeper-agents. Someone show me how I can know that they won’t figure out a way to remote-reprogram Caprica-Six.

          Don’t bother with that. The old switcheroo.

      • Trekkie says:

        Re: Best Episode EVER

        I also really liked the way Caprica Six killed Three, figuring that with 36 other Cylons in queue, they’d have 39 minutes to get away. (Are my numbers right? That sounds like a very rapid resurrection process.)

        I’m at work so I can’t rewatch that part but I swore it was hours, not minutes. Leaving me to believe that while they can resurrect, it’s not a quick jump back

      • obscurion says:

        Re: Best Episode EVER

        …the Cylon coup.

        I’m still holding to the idea that the human-cylons are the perfect slaves: they think they are in charge. Keep the memories tidy, keep them coming back via upload and toss in some religion to give them motivation and a dollop of social control (a big role of religion in any society is creating and enforcing a social norm).

    • Trekkie says:

      Re: Best Episode EVER

      Hands up everyone who thought Baltar was a cylon for a second (;

      I woke up my wife by screaming NO FUCKING WAY at the top of my lungs before I realized my error

    • y42 says:

      Re: Best Episode EVER

      Hands up everyone who thought Baltar was a cylon for a second (;

      For a second? I’ve been saying so since the first season! :)

      This has got to be one of the best plot twists ever. Six has a Baltar in HER head! That’s. Just. Fantastic.

      Indeed.

      As for Gaius, I had an inkling he was a Cylon until His Six and him started referring to The Cylon Baby as our baby. Our? No relation to either of them, except in the sense that at least one of them is a Cylon, that is.

      Also, that hallucination of olden Kobol… that’s much more immersive than having Six prance around in pretty dresses. Much more.

      You wanna know what I think? I think Gaius is One: The Cylon master. And that inter-Cylon luvin’ is a big no-no, sort of like incest.

      • Cunning_Linguist says:

        Re: Best Episode EVER

        Hands up everyone who thought Baltar was a cylon for a second (;

        This has got to be one of the best plot twists ever. Six has a Baltar in HER head! That’s. Just. Fantastic.

        Indeed.

        Also, that hallucination of olden Kobol… that’s much more immersive than having Six prance around in pretty dresses. Much more.

        You wanna know what I think? I think Gaius is One: The Cylon master. And that inter-Cylon luvin’ is a big no-no, sort of like incest.

        That actually makes a lot of sense… I hadn’t thought of it that way.

  2. Cerberus7 says:

    Baltar and Caprica
    They’re my high points. The similarities and differences in their interactions between the Baltars and Sixes were great. Baltar’s first appearance just dropped my jaw off of my face and hit the floor. Caprica’s realization at the end was my other high point. I think Caprica Six is now my favorite character.

  3. Damien says:

    Baby scene reminded me..
    A few weeks ago I thought of something but forgot it again, this episode reminded me.

    Now that they’ve outlawed abortion due to the fact there’s only 4x,000 humans left, why didn’t they also announce an official foster-care program to at least partially take care of both sides of an ongoing equation?

    Damien

    • Cerberus7 says:

      Re: Baby scene reminded me..
      That’s a great idea. In the Pern novels, the colonists set up something like that to more efficiently care for the young that they were producing, and it became a major part of their culture. It worked for them with their small population, maybe it could work for the fleet.

    • J_W_W says:

      Re: Baby scene reminded me..

      A few weeks ago I thought of something but forgot it again, this episode reminded me.

      Now that they’ve outlawed abortion due to the fact there’s only 4x,000 humans left, why didn’t they also announce an official foster-care program to at least partially take care of both sides of an ongoing equation?

      Damien

      I’m sure they have something like that, and that’s probably what they used to find the adoptive mother. I also like the way they chose someone who lost a baby. Its a know fact that a cylon has never delivered a baby before Sharon, so it would also follow that anyone who’s had a child and lost that child could not be a cylon. Great thinking on Roslyn’s part. Also, if its close enough to her losing her baby, they can try and pass the hybrid off as her own.

    • Nakhti says:

      Re: Baby scene reminded me..

      why didn’t they also announce an official foster-care program to at least partially take care of both sides of an ongoing equation?
      Damien

      That was my low point on that episode. It doesn’t make sense to me that the President would simply change the law and outlaw abortions to increase the population. I would have figured that would have been more of a last resort. The better thing to do (in my opinion) would have been to offer incentives for couple to have children.

      • y42 says:

        Re: Baby scene reminded me..

        The better thing to do (in my opinion) would have been to offer incentives for couple to have children.

        "We’re in it for the species, boys and girls!"
        -SS Doogie Howser, StarShip Trooper

        You don’t offer incentives when you’re facing extinction. You do what must be done.

    • Jethro says:

      Re: Baby scene reminded me..

      Now that they’ve outlawed abortion due to the fact there’s only 4x,000 humans left, why didn’t they also announce an official foster-care program to at least partially take care of both sides of an ongoing equation?

      I’m assuming there’s a bunch of Behind The Scenes stuff here that they just didn’t go into for dramatic reasons. Like there’s no exceptions for abotrion if it’ll save the mother’s life, etc.

  4. valen1260 says:

    numbers game?
    Would-be Caprica Six told Baltar in this episode, as the nuclear explosion raced toward his home, that there are 12 models. I watched this repeatedly, and it didn’t look like a dub, but I thought there were only seven. Did they rewrite BG history to allow themselves more room, or am I just getting forgetful.

    • Damien says:

      Re: numbers game?

      Would-be Caprica Six told Baltar in this episode, as the nuclear explosion raced toward his home, that there are 12 models. I watched this repeatedly, and it didn’t look like a dub, but I thought there were only seven. Did they rewrite BG history to allow themselves more room, or am I just getting forgetful.

      They’ve obviously only shown us seven-ish models so far, it leaves the story open as to who the others are. The strange part is that on Caprica they only have, what, four models running around doing everything? It must be part of their plan or something, either that or the writers just yanking our chains ;)

      Damien

      • theangrymob says:

        Re: numbers game?

        It must be part of their plan or something, either that or the writers just yanking our chains ;)

        You guys really need to tune into Ron Moore’s podcasts. He mentions this, and other nitpicks quite often. Basically the producers didn’t want to tip their hand as to who the other cylons are. No more, no less.

        • Jethro says:

          Re: numbers game?

          You guys really need to tune into Ron Moore’s podcasts.

          Oh I tried to listen to them, but the guy cannot seem to resist the spoilers! "Oh, this will be interesting in a few episode." "We’ll get into this more in a few episodes." "Oh this character dies soon." GAH!

          • Trekkie says:

            Re: numbers game?

            You guys really need to tune into Ron Moore’s podcasts.

            Oh I tried to listen to them, but the guy cannot seem to resist the spoilers! "Oh, this will be interesting in a few episode." "We’ll get into this more in a few episodes." "Oh this character dies soon." GAH!

            Not to mention that god awful almost wrecked the car the first time BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP that comes on 50x the volume of his voice. I about wrecked my car because I have to crank my stereo to here him well when I’m driving home.

            • J_W_W says:

              Re: numbers game?

              You guys really need to tune into Ron Moore’s podcasts.

              Oh I tried to listen to them, but the guy cannot seem to resist the spoilers! "Oh, this will be interesting in a few episode." "We’ll get into this more in a few episodes." "Oh this character dies soon." GAH!

              Not to mention that god awful almost wrecked the car the first time BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP that comes on 50x the volume of his voice. I about wrecked my car because I have to crank my stereo to here him well when I’m driving home.

              You’re right about the beep, and the volume level you need to hear anything. Also, the background noise is obnoxious. Hes had gardening noise (tillers I would guess), garbage trucks, phones, kids, his lighter, and all kinds of other background noise in the podcasts. Also, there’s almost always traffic noise. I mean where does he live, under a bridge or something?

              But beyond that the podcasts are entertaining. ;-)

          • Damien says:

            Re: numbers game?

            You guys really need to tune into Ron Moore’s podcasts.

            Oh I tried to listen to them, but the guy cannot seem to resist the spoilers! "Oh, this will be interesting in a few episode." "We’ll get into this more in a few episodes." "Oh this character dies soon." GAH!

            That’s why I won’t touch them, I <em>want</em> to be surprised when watching the show, not knowing all this crap in advance.

            Damien

            • Jethro says:

              Re: numbers game?

              That’s why I won’t touch them, I <em>want</em> to be surprised when watching the show, not knowing all this crap in advance.

              Completely agree. I almost don’t watch anything TiVo gets from SciFi until a week later just so I can avoid the spoilers (the darn commercials sneak up on me).

              I’m very surprised that Mr Moore doesn’t want to keep everything a total secret. JMS was always really good about that.

        • J_W_W says:

          Re: numbers game?

          It must be part of their plan or something, either that or the writers just yanking our chains ;)

          You guys really need to tune into Ron Moore’s podcasts. He mentions this, and other nitpicks quite often. Basically the producers didn’t want to tip their hand as to who the other cylons are. No more, no less.

          What I would have liked is a few shots (from a distance, from behind) of other models of cylon. Heck even showing us one new one in passing would be cool, cause then we could look for that person in the fleet.

      • Omeganon says:

        Re: numbers game?

        They’ve obviously only shown us seven-ish models so far, it leaves the story open as to who the others are. The strange part is that on Caprica they only have, what, four models running around doing everything? It must be part of their plan or something, either that or the writers just yanking our chains ;)

        There’s a fifth in the Cafe that I don’t think we’ve seen before. First table, close to us in the pan from the coffee scene with his back to us.


        Omeganon

    • shadowfax says:

      Re: numbers game?

      Would-be Caprica Six told Baltar in this episode, as the nuclear explosion raced toward his home, that there are 12 models. I watched this repeatedly, and it didn’t look like a dub, but I thought there were only seven. Did they rewrite BG history to allow themselves more room, or am I just getting forgetful.

      I’m going completely from memory, but IIRC, the number of models the humans (and viewers) have thought existed have changed over the course of the series (8->12?). That, and/or I think there may be 8 *in the fleet* and 12 *overall*. This is purely my woozy workday guess. Anyone, help?

      I like the 1 model/human colony (other than earth) parallel. :-)

      • J_W_W says:

        Re: numbers game?

        Would-be Caprica Six told Baltar in this episode, as the nuclear explosion raced toward his home, that there are 12 models. I watched this repeatedly, and it didn’t look like a dub, but I thought there were only seven. Did they rewrite BG history to allow themselves more room, or am I just getting forgetful.

        I’m going completely from memory, but IIRC, the number of models the humans (and viewers) have thought existed have changed over the course of the series (8->12?). That, and/or I think there may be 8 *in the fleet* and 12 *overall*. This is purely my woozy workday guess. Anyone, help?

        I like the 1 model/human colony (other than earth) parallel. :-)

        You know, there actaully are 13 models of cylon on the show now…. Will the hybrid have something to do with Earth??

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: numbers game?

          You know, there actaully are 13 models of cylon on the show now…. Will the hybrid have something to do with Earth??

          Brilliant conjecture! One model per astrological sign/planet/colony.

          • obscurion says:

            Re: numbers game?

            You know, there actaully are 13 models of cylon on the show now…. Will the hybrid have something to do with Earth??

            Brilliant conjecture! One model per astrological sign/planet/colony.

            True, but I think that the idea that Baltar is becoming a cylon (the hard way) is an interesting conjecture. If he is/will be a cylon then he is the 13th model. Add in the old-time religion and Baltar becomes parallel to Judas.

    • Pii says:

      Re: numbers game?

      Would-be Caprica Six told Baltar in this episode, as the nuclear explosion raced toward his home, that there are 12 models. I watched this repeatedly, and it didn’t look like a dub, but I thought there were only seven. Did they rewrite BG history to allow themselves more room, or am I just getting forgetful.

      It’s not a dub… In the mini-series, she reveals that there are 12 models (and someone downthread offers that there *seems* to be one model that corresponds to each of the 12 colonies, which is an insightful comment).

      We have, to date, discovered 6 of them: Number Six, Number Eight (Sharon), Loeben (The one on the nebula station/the one interrogated by Starbuck), Kevin Spacey Looking Guy (Forget his name), Simon (The Black Doctor that treated Starbuck on Caprica), and Deanna (News Reporter/Featured prominantly in this past episode).

      • dan_k says:

        Re: numbers game?

        We have, to date, discovered 6 of them: Number Six, Number Eight (Sharon), Loeben (The one on the nebula station/the one interrogated by Starbuck), Kevin Spacey Looking Guy (Forget his name), Simon (The Black Doctor that treated Starbuck on Caprica), and Deanna (News Reporter/Featured prominantly in this past episode).

        You are missing 2, the original Cylon Sentry sitting in a case on what used to be the Galactica museum and the tin cans that are running around now. So in essence, if there was a new model shown, there are only 3 models left to reveal.

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: numbers game?

          Kevin Spacey Looking Guy (Forget his name)

          You know, I *still* do double-takes thinking it is Spacey.

          Deanna (News Reporter/Featured prominantly in this past episode)

          a.k.a. Number 3.

          They did a pretty nice recap of the models in the "previously on" part. I’ll have to check it again.

          You are missing 2, the original Cylon Sentry sitting in a case on what used to be the Galactica museum and the tin cans that are running around now. So in essence, if there was a new model shown, there are only 3 models left to reveal.

          You’re counting toasters (and old ones at that)? Is everybody else factoring toasters into their 8 or 12 or 13 total? That, honestly, had never occured to me. I had just always assumed they meant models of fleshies.

          • dan_k says:

            Re: numbers game?
            Yeah, I am counting them. The case on display said original Cylon Warrior or something to that matter, so I take it that is a model of Cylon. "They still have their uses" was a quote from some episode (not sure, its getting late, my brain has switched off). I count the toasters also as no one has mentioned that they are the same as the raiders, essentially pets. So I think we have seen 8 or 9 models and that only leaves a couple to reveal.

    • obscurion says:

      Re: numbers game?

      Would-be Caprica Six told Baltar in this episode, as the nuclear explosion raced toward his home, that there are 12 models. I watched this repeatedly, and it didn’t look like a dub, but I thought there were only seven. Did they rewrite BG history to allow themselves more room, or am I just getting forgetful.

      Yes, a message was left in Adama’s quarters saying "12 models" in the mini-series as well. Boomer says eight cylons in the fleet when Baltar poisons Chief in the cell.

      • shadowfax says:

        Re: numbers game?

        Would-be Caprica Six told Baltar in this episode, as the nuclear explosion raced toward his home, that there are 12 models. I watched this repeatedly, and it didn’t look like a dub, but I thought there were only seven. Did they rewrite BG history to allow themselves more room, or am I just getting forgetful.

        Yes, a message was left in Adama’s quarters saying "12 models" in the mini-series as well. Boomer says eight cylons in the fleet when Baltar poisons Chief in the cell.

        One thing I can’t recall or settle in my head – was it clear if she meant eight *cylons* or eight *models*?

        • obscurion says:

          Re: numbers game?

          Yes, a message was left in Adama’s quarters saying "12 models" in the mini-series as well. Boomer says eight cylons in the fleet when Baltar poisons Chief in the cell.

          One thing I can’t recall or settle in my head – was it clear if she meant eight *cylons* or eight *models*?

          I’m pretty sure it was individuals not models (models would be much less useful) but I won’t swear to it.

  5. J_W_W says:

    Finally!!
    I have been waiting for this episode since the end of the miniseries. I have always thought the seeing the resurrection of Galactica Boomer would be a great story.

    They DID NOT dissapoint. This episode was excellent! The acting was excellent, the plot was excellent, everything was top notch. I know its got almost no action in space, no real battles, but yet I agree with many others that it is possibly the best Galactica episode yet.

    The cylon perspective absolutely neede to be brought into the broader story. But on top of that perspective, this episode left you with the feeling that Sharon and Caprica Six are different, dare I say evolved, from the other cylons. The way they deliver the "Yes we are!" line to the are you alive question at the end was great, it conveyed so much.

    I’m left believing that all the cylons desperately want to believe that they are alive, but that they are missing some essential elements to that. This explains why they can be so cold and calculating and unemotional, and also why they’re prone to tantrums and outbursts (like the Sharon’s response to the baby’s death). They don’t really have the bugs worked out (or even a full feature set) of their emotions. I believe that something changed in Sharon and Caprica Six that has enhanced or expanded their emotional range. And this has given them the tools to review the actions of their race from a different perspective. As my son summed up after watching, "they have a conscience".

    The repercussions of this will be great, indeed.

    As for Baltar’s Six and Six’s Baltar, I thought it was interesting that the Baltar in Six’s head is more concerned about humanity than the real Baltar, and that the Six in Baltar’s head is more concerned about the Cylon plan, than the Six on Caprica. Brilliant!!

    • nkuzmik says:

      Re: Finally!!

      I have been waiting for this episode since the end of the miniseries. I have always thought the seeing the resurrection of Galactica Boomer would be a great story.

      They DID NOT dissapoint. This episode was excellent! The acting was excellent, the plot was excellent, everything was top notch. I know its got almost no action in space, no real battles, but yet I agree with many others that it is possibly the best Galactica episode yet.

      The cylon perspective absolutely neede to be brought into the broader story. But on top of that perspective, this episode left you with the feeling that Sharon and Caprica Six are different, dare I say evolved, from the other cylons. The way they deliver the "Yes we are!" line to the are you alive question at the end was great, it conveyed so much.

      I’m left believing that all the cylons desperately want to believe that they are alive, but that they are missing some essential elements to that. This explains why they can be so cold and calculating and unemotional, and also why they’re prone to tantrums and outbursts (like the Sharon’s response to the baby’s death). They don’t really have the bugs worked out (or even a full feature set) of their emotions. I believe that something changed in Sharon and Caprica Six that has enhanced or expanded their emotional range. And this has given them the tools to review the actions of their race from a different perspective. As my son summed up after watching, "they have a conscience".

      The repercussions of this will be great, indeed.

      As for Baltar’s Six and Six’s Baltar, I thought it was interesting that the Baltar in Six’s head is more concerned about humanity than the real Baltar, and that the Six in Baltar’s head is more concerned about the Cylon plan, than the Six on Caprica. Brilliant!!

      Random thought: could a cylon resurect in a different model? Why not? Granted it would probably be severely traumatic, far more than a normal resurrection. But ask yourself this: Would Sharon(Adama) eat a bullet and risk years of brain damage being resurrected as a Raider so she could fly back to Galactica and bring them critical intel? Lets sweeten the pot a little bit, lets assume that she could convince them that this was Sharon, the girl, not Sharon the cylon talking, and this act would not only &#65279;&#65279;assuage her guilt over shooting Adama, but redeem her in the eyes of her friends. Assume these things are a given and she knows it. Would she become a Raider?

      • Jethro says:

        Re: Finally!!

        Random thought: could a cylon resurect in a different model? Why not?

        There’s probably some kind of firmware issues.

        /geek

        • obscurion says:

          Re: Finally!!

          Random thought: could a cylon resurect in a different model? Why not?

          There’s probably some kind of firmware issues.

          /geek

          And probably not in their control: when they wake up it’s a done deal.

        • Cunning_Linguist says:

          Re: Finally!!

          Random thought: could a cylon resurect in a different model? Why not?

          There’s probably some kind of firmware issues.

          /geek

          More like wetware issues…

          /pedantic geek

      • valen1260 says:

        Re: Finally!!

        Random thought: could a cylon resurect in a different model? Why not?

        Caprica Six talked about being disoriented weeks later, even in her identical body. It would probably take far too long to adjust to a new body to be worth the body switch.

        Would Sharon(Adama) eat a bullet and risk years of brain damage being resurrected as a Raider so she could fly back to Galactica and bring them critical intel? … Assume these things are a given and she knows it. Would she become a Raider?

        Now, I think you’re asking if an apple would want to become an orange. It would be one thing to attempt a body switch. At least there’s a valid reason behind it (a new look each time would keep the enemy guessing). But I’ve always been under the impression that the toasters and raiders are less evolved (stupider) than the fleshies. I think Galactica Sharon even says something to that effect when Starbuck recovers the raider–something about it being a pet or a dog.

        Besides, how would Raider Sharon communicate with Galactica after she found them. They’d need a protocol droid to understand her. ;)

    • dram says:

      Re: Finally!!

      I’m left believing that all the cylons desperately want to believe that they are alive, but that they are missing some essential elements to that. This explains why they can be so cold and calculating and unemotional, and also why they’re prone to tantrums and outbursts (like the Sharon’s response to the baby’s death). They don’t really have the bugs worked out (or even a full feature set) of their emotions. I believe that something changed in Sharon and Caprica Six that has enhanced or expanded their emotional range. And this has given them the tools to review the actions of their race from a different perspective. As my son summed up after watching, "they have a conscience".

      The difference between Caprica Six and Sharon and all of the other Cylons is that they are facing death. Most Cylons know that when they ‘die’ they will be reborn into another body. Caprica Six and Sharon, when they die, will likely be boxed, which from the perspective of a Cylon is the same thing as death for a human.

      • nkuzmik says:

        Re: Finally!!

        I’m left believing that all the cylons desperately want to believe that they are alive, but that they are missing some essential elements to that. This explains why they can be so cold and calculating and unemotional, and also why they’re prone to tantrums and outbursts (like the Sharon’s response to the baby’s death). They don’t really have the bugs worked out (or even a full feature set) of their emotions. I believe that something changed in Sharon and Caprica Six that has enhanced or expanded their emotional range. And this has given them the tools to review the actions of their race from a different perspective. As my son summed up after watching, "they have a conscience".

        The difference between Caprica Six and Sharon and all of the other Cylons is that they are facing death. Most Cylons know that when they ‘die’ they will be reborn into another body. Caprica Six and Sharon, when they die, will likely be boxed, which from the perspective of a Cylon is the same thing as death for a human.

        "boxed", more like rm -Rf *

        • joe__gee says:

          LOL

          "boxed", more like rm -Rf *

          EXCELLENT comment. :)

          -Joe

          • J_W_W says:

            Re: LOL

            "boxed", more like rm -Rf *

            EXCELLENT comment. :)

            -Joe

            No, I would think boxed would be more like

            tar -czvf sharon.tgz sharon

            • joe__gee says:

              Re: LOL

              EXCELLENT comment. :)

              -Joe

              No, I would think boxed would be more like

              tar -czvf sharon.tgz sharon

              LOL! Then bzip sharon.tgz , just for safety’s sake. :)

        • Cunning_Linguist says:

          Re: Finally!!

          "boxed", more like rm -Rf *

          More like rm -Rf / I think. 8p

          • nkuzmik says:

            Re: Finally!!

            "boxed", more like rm -Rf *

            More like rm -Rf / I think. 8p

            Are we going have to take our slide rules out and measure? ;-)

            • Cunning_Linguist says:

              Re: Finally!!

              "boxed", more like rm -Rf *

              More like rm -Rf / I think. 8p

              Are we going have to take our slide rules out and measure? ;-)

              Only if we measure how old school we are. Personally, I use the original computer… how about you? 8p

  6. shadowfax says:

    Query re: Cylon memory sharing
    Okay here’s a question. It appears, from everything we’ve seen in ‘Download,’ that Cylons of the same model are individuals differentiated by their memory sets. For example, Caprica Six and Adama Five, who are different from other Sixes and Fives because of their experiences and memories. So here’s my question.

    The Five aboard Galactica has many of the same memories as the ‘Adama Five’ on Caprica. We’ve seen this because she has spoken with humans about her prior experiences from an ‘I was there’ perspective. So does she really have *memories*, or does she just have *information* that she’s using to ‘thicken her cover’? Does she *believe* she’s the same Sharon as ‘Adama Five’? Will *any* Fives instantiated with the memory stream post-Adama have this ‘human imprinted’ reaction?

    One other fact to consider: Remember, on Kobol, when Sharon/Five shot Zarek’s henchman and then whispered to Adama, she said ‘You asked why.’ Well, he asked why while *sitting in front of Adama Five’s corpse*. Are we to assume that the corpse was still transmitting information, and that Helo Five was in receipt of that information? I must admit, when I saw Adama Five resurrect, I initially thought that what did it was not ‘ten weeks ago’ but the Delany character putting bullets into her head during the hostage standoff finally triggering a ‘release’ of some kind…which was why that ‘communications’ channel was still open, earlier. Even though she’d ‘downloaded’, the body was still transmitting on some basic level, and hence Adama Five hadn’t rezzed.

    Ah, the confusion. In any case, I remain slightly confused re: the timeline, what with all the ‘ten weeks ago’ and ‘nine months agos.’ Did ‘Helo Five’ get instantiated prior to ‘Adama Five’s shooting of the commander, and subsequent death? I think she did, which means she wouldn’t have known anything about Adama Five’s betrayal, and which means she would have expected to meet Adama Five on reaching the Fleet with Helo. If that’s the case, though, how did she know that Adama asked ‘Why’??????

    Argh.

    • Trekkie says:

      Re: Query re: Cylon memory sharing
      don’t hurt your head over production mistakes ;)

      don’t know if that is waht really happened, but I’d file that under ‘continuity broken’ thing

  7. joe__gee says:

    Loved this episode!
    Read everyone else’s comments. This episode was GLORIOUS. k, now that the raving is done …

    Does anyone else wonder why some humanoid Cylons seem to be updated on a regular basis as to the actions of their brothers/sisters? How would BSG Sharon know what happened to Adama Sharon if Adama Sharon hadn’t yet been killed/resurrected?

    In Microsoft speak: is this a feature (the writers are telling us something else about Cylon consciousness,) or a bug (continuity error, as someone else in here seems to think?) :)

    -Joe G.

    • Nakhti says:

      Re: Loved this episode!

      Read everyone else’s comments. This episode was GLORIOUS. k, now that the raving is done …

      Does anyone else wonder why some humanoid Cylons seem to be updated on a regular basis as to the actions of their brothers/sisters? How would BSG Sharon know what happened to Adama Sharon if Adama Sharon hadn’t yet been killed/resurrected?

      I would say that the human cylons are uploaded with a "base" memory that would cover up to a certain point. In Sharon’s case, that could be up to shortly before the mini-series. Memories would diverge from then. I imagine that if they die, or return to Cylon controled territory, their memories are collected and they then form a new "base" memory pack. Also, since one of the Sharon’s knew she was a Cylon, she probably had more intel as to the going ons of the fleet.

      • valen1260 says:

        Re: Loved this episode!

        I would say that the human cylons are uploaded with a "base" memory that would cover up to a certain point. In Sharon’s case, that could be up to shortly before the mini-series. Memories would diverge from then. I imagine that if they die, or return to Cylon controled territory, their memories are collected and they then form a new "base" memory pack. Also, since one of the Sharon’s knew she was a Cylon, she probably had more intel as to the going ons of the fleet.

        Or, to continue the geek play, each model is made from a full backup. (Sharon’s memories pre-Galactica, for example.) The models then diverge and gather experience. (Sharon’s experience on Galactica and/or relationship with Tyrol.) Occassionally, important information is sent back to the "hive" in incremental (or differential) backups. When a model is reborn, they are given the full backup with all incremental (or differential) backups, until they are brought up to speed with the most recent, relevant info. (Pregnant Sharon remembers serving on Galactica.)

  8. vandemar says:

    Shared memory
    Much earlier on, I had the impression that Cylons were linked in some sort of a hive mind, with sleepers being the exception. Helo’s Sharon proved that to be wrong. But now, we find out that the human models are a lot more human than we imagined. I’m thinking of Caprica Six’s ignorance of Baltar’s survival and Adama Sharon’s ignorance of Baltar’s relationship to Six.

    On the other hand Helo’s Sharon seemed to have access to Adama Sharon’s past memories. Maybe sleeper cylons unconsciously broadcast their memories to the rest? Maybe only Six got cut off after she became suspect?

    But what I really want to know is: In light of this new information, who or what is Shelley Godfrey?

  9. joe__gee says:

    Six’ Baltar vs. Baltar’s Six
    Did anyone else pick up that Caprica Six’ ghost Baltar was humanizing, while of course Baltar’s ghost Six is dehumanizing? The two alter-egos/consciences/whatevers are polar opposites both to eachother, and to their hosts. Baltar popping up in Six’s head was one of the most delicious surprises I’ve had recently. I can’t wait to see where this goes. :)

    And yes, I thought CYLON!!! for a second myself. :)

    -Joe

    P.S. My own theory: when Caprica Six died, she died in contact with Baltar, someone she loved, and the upload accidentally left a bit of Six in Baltar, and a bit of Baltar in Six. Kind of like the old "you got chocolate in my peanut butter" Reese’s commercials. :)

    • OrangeCarrot says:

      Re: Six’ Baltar vs. Baltar’s Six

      P.S. My own theory: when Caprica Six died, she died in contact with Baltar, someone she loved, and the upload accidentally left a bit of Six in Baltar, and a bit of Baltar in Six. Kind of like the old "you got chocolate in my peanut butter" Reese’s commercials. :)

      I really like where your theory’s going here. — > A lot of people are trying to come up with some scientific reason behind the essence exchange between them. The idea that they spiritually swapped bits is really appealing. The last thing I want to hear as that the midicloreans did a mumbo-jumbo on the two of them.[/sploiler] < —

  10. Jethro says:

    Wait a minute…
    How did Adama-Sharon get ressurected all the way back on Caprica? That’s one HECK of a range that thing has! Why do they need the ressurection ship if it can go that far?

    Or are there relay stations?

    • shadowfax says:

      Re: Wait a minute…

      How did Adama-Sharon get ressurected all the way back on Caprica? That’s one HECK of a range that thing has! Why do they need the ressurection ship if it can go that far?

      Or are there relay stations?

      Yeah, that’s a good question. Especially coupled with the worry the male Cylon had in Season One (at least, apparently) when being interrogated by Starbuck, that he wouldn’t make it back. That might have been a ruse, of couse, esp. now that we know the rez ship was out there.

      One more problem, which totally could be me over-obsessing tech-geekery. AFAICT, the ‘Ten Weeks Ago’ rez of Adama Five corresponds to the time Cally shot her body on Galactica and not the time Delany’s char headshot the corpse. If that’s the case, and we assume that that death is what ‘enabled’ the rez back on Caprica, then ‘transmission’ of the Cylon mindstate/soul is FASTER THAN LIGHT *unless* such a relay capability exists *and* is/was shadowing the fleet to ‘pick up’ soul transmissions and relay them to the rez ship/Caprica. i.e. the FTL part of it is ‘aboard a ship w/FTL drive’ which isn’t anything new. But it would imply that indeed the Cylons *do* need to know precisely where the fleet is, not just ‘be in range,’ in order for resurrection to ‘work.’

      Of course, the ability to ‘box’ Cylons points towards the capability to relay them, sort of.

      • theangrymob says:

        Re: Wait a minute…

        How did Adama-Sharon get ressurected all the way back on Caprica?

        Who said she got rezzed all the way back on Caprica? She may have gotten resurrected on a ship, then transported back to Caprica in the interveening weeks.

        Don’t overthink these things guys.

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: Wait a minute…

          Don’t overthink these things guys.

          I’m sorry, you must be in the wrong place. ;)

      • obscurion says:

        Re: Wait a minute…

        How did Adama-Sharon get ressurected all the way back on Caprica? That’s one HECK of a range that thing has! Why do they need the ressurection ship if it can go that far?

        Or are there relay stations?

        Yeah, that’s a good question. Especially coupled with the worry the male Cylon had in Season One (at least, apparently) when being interrogated by Starbuck, that he wouldn’t make it back. That might have been a ruse, of couse, esp. now that we know the rez ship was out there.

        One more problem, which totally could be me over-obsessing tech-geekery. AFAICT, the ‘Ten Weeks Ago’ rez of Adama Five corresponds to the time Cally shot her body on Galactica and not the time Delany’s char headshot the corpse. If that’s the case, and we assume that that death is what ‘enabled’ the rez back on Caprica, then ‘transmission’ of the Cylon mindstate/soul is FASTER THAN LIGHT *unless* such a relay capability exists *and* is/was shadowing the fleet to ‘pick up’ soul transmissions and relay them to the rez ship/Caprica. i.e. the FTL part of it is ‘aboard a ship w/FTL drive’ which isn’t anything new. But it would imply that indeed the Cylons *do* need to know precisely where the fleet is, not just ‘be in range,’ in order for resurrection to ‘work.’

        Of course, the ability to ‘box’ Cylons points towards the capability to relay them, sort of.

        Perhaps individual cylons have enough memory to store someone else’s memory. Given they seem to be able to keep multiple threads of their own series extra non-active storage seems possible.

        On the first season "wounded bird" episode the analysis of signals coming from it appeared to be going to specific ships in the fleet. If the raiders can act as couriers then memory stores could be moved very quickly.

        • Cunning_Linguist says:

          Re: Wait a minute…

          On the first season "wounded bird" episode the analysis of signals coming from it appeared to be going to specific ships in the fleet. If the raiders can act as couriers then memory stores could be moved very quickly.

          I actually think that the raiders acting as couriers/relays is the explanation that makes the most sense. Good one. :)

    • Cunning_Linguist says:

      Re: Wait a minute…

      How did Adama-Sharon get ressurected all the way back on Caprica? That’s one HECK of a range that thing has! Why do they need the ressurection ship if it can go that far?

      Or are there relay stations?

      Even more importantly (to me) is the question of why they haven’t found and/or destroyed the fleet yet. You have to assume (I know, I know… when you assume) that whenever one of them got fried and their data (memory/consciousness/whatever) got sent to the resurection ship, the ship would have been able to pinpoint their location at that moment. Add to that the fact that the ability to transmit that amount of information would make the trasmition of smaller amounts (like, say, coordinates, course, speed, etc.) trivial by comparison. That being the case, why not just instruct the toasters to transmit the required information and just get on with the killing?

      I know, I know… it wouldn’t be as dramatic but, still… WTF?!?!?

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