Battlestar Galactica: Exodus, Part Two

On this week’s episode, the role of Eldhrin will be played by Dave. Do not adjust your set.

Cast

James Callis as President Gaius Baltar
Edward James Olmos as Admiral Adama
Mary McDonnell as Laura Roslin
Katee Sackhoff as Kara “Starbuck” Thrace
Jamie Bamber as Cmdr. Lee Adama
Michael Hogan as Col. Tigh
Tricia Helfer as Number Six
Grace Park as Sharon “Boomer” Agathon


Tahmoh Penikett as Karl “Helo” Agathon
Aaron Douglas as CPO Galen Tyrol
Dean Stockwell as Brother Cavil/Number Five
Lucy Lawless as D’Anna Biers/Number Three

Richard Hatch as Tom Zarek
Kate Vernon as Ellen Tigh
Luciana Carro as Louanne “Kat” Katraine
Kandyse McClure as Anastasia “Dee” Dualla
Leah Cairns as Lt. Margaret “Racetrack” Edmonson

Callum Keith Rennie as Leoben Conoy
Nicki Clyne as Cally Henderson
Michael Trucco as Samuel T. Anders
Alessandro Juliani as Felix Gaeta
Rekha Sharma as Tory Foster

Synopsis

Leaving “Pegasus” behind to guard the remnants of the fleet, “Galactica”
jumps back to New Caprica to attempt a daring rescue of the rest of the human race.

High Points

  • The way Tigh deals with Ellen. We all knew Tigh was a bad-ass, but that’s just impressive.
  • “Hey, if a Raptor can jump into atmosphere, why not Galactica?”

Low Points


  • Finding out where Starbuck’s daughter Casey really came from. It makes sense, given that Leoben is a manipulative villain, but it’s still a bit of a heartbreaker.

  • Seems awfully convenient that the broken hull of Pegasus would manage to collapse in such a way that part of it takes out one Basestar, and the rest splinters off and takes out a second Basestar. It may defy physics and/or common sense, but damn did it look cool.

The Scores

We had a few hints of the original plan last week, but this time around we get to see all those crazy plans come to fruition. We’ve seen smaller ships like Raptors jump into a planetary atmosphere, but seeing something on the scale of Galactica itself is just insane. Desperate times, I suppose… Ultimately, though, this week’s episode is (mostly) the logical conclusion of last week, so I can only give it 5 points here.

The effects exceeded even the generally-high expectations I have for Galactica, especially Galactica dropping like a rock in the atmosphere, the destruction of Pegasus, and even those little subtle details (like the rain of ash as Caprica-Six, Baltar, and Xena prepare to leave, and the fact that Galactica looks fire-charred after that atmospheric stunt). 6/6.

Story: We’ve got plenty of swerves. Tigh proved to be even harder than we all thought, and Starbuck being a bit softer than we all thought, especially with the “hey, here’s Casey’s real mother” bit at the end. Both of those will, I suspect, come back to haunt those characters later on. 5 points for both answering questions and raising new ones.

Acting: Seeing Tigh crying out of one eye after he dealt with his own wife… I mean, really, his frackin’ WIFE… (Oh yeah, seeing Baltar finally realize just how badly he’s screwed up, staring down the barrel of a gun held by Gaeta of all people, that was pretty swell too.) 6/6.

Production: A lot of this overlaps with the special effects, admittedly, but things like the rain of ash after most of the buildings on the surface of New Caprica just help remind you that this is a real universe. Also, we were free of weird production errors like the magical teleporting Cally from last week. 6/6.

Emotional response: This is one of the biggest payoffs in the series to date. Seeing just how far Tigh will go really got this episode four or five points by itself, and all that other stuff (like Apollo finally coming back to his senses and becoming the kick-ass commander we all knew he could be, after that nice speech from Dee) is just gravy. 6/6.

Overall, this episode was pure concentrated awesome in pretty much every way. 6/6.

Which gives Exodus, Part Two a grand total of 40 out of a possible 42.

78 replies on “Battlestar Galactica: Exodus, Part Two”

  1. Stargazer says:

    First comment
    I loved all the things you mentioned, BUT I did find it jarring that they built in what I think of as a Star-Trek style false-surprise: did anyone think that Apollo would really sit back and let Dad go on a potential suicide run? It’s not that it was out of character for the Admiral to need to do it alone and for Apollo to go along initially … but it pulled me out of the show to hear them set it up that way.

    On a different note, when Tigh did his deed I thought "harsh, but in character." But 2 days later I’m finding it haunting…

    • roseblood says:

      Re: First comment

      On a different note, when Tigh did his deed I thought "harsh, but in character." But 2 days later I’m finding it haunting…

      A response to you:

      "You know what has to be done."
      Tigh gets it done. A serious hardass. "You sleep now."

      Now just going off on the rest of the episode:

      I’ll just SPOILER tag the whole thing, there’s a few in there

      I love the drones that masquerade as battlestars. Like blip-enchance we have today. A

      smaller craft (even a helicopter) can make themselves look like an aircraft carrier sized

      radar target in order to draw fire from valuable assets.

      "turbulence" … understatement. I love it. One would guess that battlestars were not

      meant for that.

      All the casualties taken on the Galatica bridge . . . Didn’t they watch TREK when

      designing their ships? Do not route power, plasma, fuel, whatever through the bridge. Put

      the bridge in a position where it is heavily shielded/armored. In our era of potent

      anti-ship missiles where being hit is almost certainly going to result in a mission kill

      a bridge in the super structure isn’t as big a deal (although CICs are usually within the

      hull.) But when hulls of battlestars can hold together after such beatings one would want

      to make sure there is still a command intact to lead the ship, instead of having the helm

      explode and knock everyone out. Just look at how well the Pegasus held together, even after her crew abandoned ship and she was no mission capable.

      Leoben . . . have the repeated resurrections made him a fool? Could he never read a humans emotional state to begin with? Why was he really so surprised to get a shakned?

      Felix Gaeta, was he thinking clear or just another victim of Baltars strange charm?

      The younger Adama has to know of the relative values of the two battlestars as war

      machines . . . it’s amazing he was willing to sacrifice the Pegasus instead of the less

      combat capable Galatica. Then again the show isn’t Battlestar Pegaus is it?

      Yeah, the ramming of a basestar by the Pegasus, sure, it’ll carry alot of kinetic energy

      and the ship could have been steered for a colission. Why not. Then again as mentioned

      the exploding hangar-pod bullseyeing another basestar? How good can their luck really be?

      Casey is human! Poor Kara. How did Leoben get the child to play along? She was old enough to know who her mommy is. My two year old can tell the difference between a "mommy" and "My Mommy" and communicate it clearly, even if all females are "mommy" regardless of age or relation. Why wasn’t Casey in tears begging Starbuck to find mommy? Well at least we now know there is only one "hulon" (human cylon hybrid.)

      As for the hulon . . . Baltar, Caprica Six, Head Six, and their child together at last.

      But so briefly. More to come of that in future episodes to be sure.

      Now that the Lawless left on the planet isn’t going to fire the nuke and the cylons evaced and the humans made their break for it, what the hell is going to happen with that crowd? A cylon SAR mission to come and get them? Surely all the humans were not rescued otherwise who gives a damn if Lawless nukes the city? Will the remaining humans get liquidated? Sent to farms for harvesting/surrogate parenting?

      Tigh as Moses . . . perhaps loved by some . . . despised by some . . . he brought "his

      people out of bondage." Hell, the title of the episode.. Exodus I and II.

      That reunion, Tigh, Kara, commander Adama. The Admiral exalted by the people, Tigh and

      the Commander going unrecognized for their contributions.

      Given some of the comments made in the some of the past podcasts regarding the distaste of the crew for working on the Colonial One set you might have expected the ship to be lost.

      Babbster: "Given how much they had to have spent on special effects just on this one episode, I expect we’re going to be doing without for a while, maybe until the end of the season."

      Given that NBC is cutting back on spending (read: employees) you might be right about a pull-back on the FX budget for BSG.

      • jesusX says:

        Re: First comment
        Re: Your Colonial One comment. Wha? I don’t listen to the audio blogs, so can you clarify that statement for me?

        • theangrymob says:

          Re: First comment

          Re: Your Colonial One comment. Wha? I don’t listen to the audio blogs, so can you clarify that statement for me?

          I can clarify: The filming crew hates the Colonial One set. Apparently it’s too crampt for them to get a lot of equipment in there (the ceiling’s too low as well). It’s also very difficult to light properly. This all came up on the podcasts recently becaust of the cylon "round table" scene frayed the crews nerves.

          Useless Trivia: Take a look at Colonial One set during the miniseries and then again during "33." Note the ceiling’s been raised a little.

          As for why Colonial One survived the ‘Exodus,’ I think the writers (and rightly so) wanted the symbolism of Roslin leaving New Caprica in "her ship" retaking her old position. Even so, the writers had to include Zarak’s line about Roslin being dramatic as a "wink-nudge" to the audience.

          • Ogre says:

            Re: First comment

            As for why Colonial One survived the ‘Exodus,’ I think the writers (and rightly so) wanted the symbolism of Roslin leaving New Caprica in "her ship" retaking her old position. Even so, the writers had to include Zarak’s line about Roslin being dramatic as a "wink-nudge" to the audience.

            And although I understand anyone is better than Baltar, and while Roslin was quite capable as a leader, if the chain of command is in any way similar to the US chain, then by all rights that’s Zarak’s ship. He was duly elected with Baltar in the election, but unlike Baltar, he was not a colaborator.

            I think this could prove for an interesting sotryline a couple of episodes from now. Although he and Roslin worked together against the Cylons, they have diametrically opposed ideologies.

            • teamspam says:

              Re: First comment
              I believe that it was indicated in past episodes of this season that Zarak resigned his post than be part of the government collaborating with the Cylons. I do agree that Roslin is not by default the President. The question is will they try to restart the old government or go with something else?

              • snarked says:

                Re: First comment

                I believe that it was indicated in past episodes of this season that Zarak resigned his post than be part of the government collaborating with the Cylons. I do agree that Roslin is not by default the President. The question is will they try to restart the old government or go with something else?

                I don’t remember that (Zarek resigning). Where was it?

                But… even if he didn’t, I’d think it likely that the populace would want Roslyn in command again, anyway. After all, she was right – and they have to know how Baltar turned out as president, even before the Cylons invaded, so I don’t think it likely that they’d want anyone from Baltar’s "administration" back, especially a former "terrorist". However, he did distinguish himself as a leader of the rebels – but how many of the general population are likely to know that?

                Interesting questions…

                cheers
                snarked

  2. Babbster says:

    Shockingly Cool
    There were a bucket of great moments in this episode – enough that it made me wish they stretched it into one more. But, Galactica jumping into the atmosphere (and then back out, with that "vacuumish" effect) was just fantastic. While I was watching it, all I could think was how cool it will be to see it later on a big screen. My little 27" HDTV didn’t do the visuals justice. Given how much they had to have spent on special effects just on this one episode, I expect we’re going to be doing without for a while, maybe until the end of the season. The guys and gals who did the effects for this ep should be writing their Emmy acceptance speeches right now.

    Oh yeah, and big ups to Ron D for making the Pegasus’ destruction extra worthwhile. I experienced a faint tinge of bitterness when it survived its previous encounter with basestars, but it was clearly worth it for this payoff.

    • Dave says:

      Re: Shockingly Cool

      The guys and gals who did the effects for this ep should be writing their Emmy acceptance speeches right now.

      The podcast says hi.

      …and we better win the f—-ng Emmy for this this year or I’m .. I swear to God.

      • Babbster says:

        Re: Shockingly Cool
        Hehe. I don’t listen to the podcast (because I don’t have a personal PC right now), but they’re absolutely right. The effects in the episode were ridonkulously good. I suspect that their main competition will probably end up being Heroes, and that could be a bad thing since it’s entirely possible that a network show would be favored over a show on basic cable, ignoring the true merits.

    • J_W_W says:

      Re: Shockingly Cool

      There were a bucket of great moments in this episode – enough that it made me wish they stretched it into one more. But, Galactica jumping into the atmosphere (and then back out, with that "vacuumish" effect) was just fantastic. While I was watching it, all I could think was how cool it will be to see it later on a big screen. My little 27" HDTV didn’t do the visuals justice. Given how much they had to have spent on special effects just on this one episode, I expect we’re going to be doing without for a while, maybe until the end of the season. The guys and gals who did the effects for this ep should be writing their Emmy acceptance speeches right now.

      Oh yeah, and big ups to Ron D for making the Pegasus’ destruction extra worthwhile. I experienced a faint tinge of bitterness when it survived its previous encounter with basestars, but it was clearly worth it for this payoff.

      You are absolutely right on this. These effects were the best I’ve ever seen on television, best EVER. When they did the wide shot on Galactica getting hammered by the Basestars, and then having the Pegasus charging to the rescue, it was unbelievably good for television. The only effects shot that I think really compares to this shot is the wide shot of the battle of Coruscant in Episode III. That shot was jaw drapping, but it was ILM, so its what you’d expect. But the effects in this episode were THAT good.

      As for the emmy, that should be a lock, but then again, no matter how good they are ILM didn’t win for Episode III either. So I guess we’ll just have to cross our fingers.

      But outside of the effects, overall, this episode of Galactica was one of the top episodes of any show ever shown on television.

      • joe__gee says:

        Re: Shockingly Cool

        But outside of the effects, overall, this episode of Galactica was one of the top episodes of any show ever shown on television.

        I got really superlative down in my comment too. Glad to see I am not alone. I’m of the opinion we’re witnessing a great television program at its zenith. :)

        -Joe

        • jesusX says:

          Re: Shockingly Cool

          I’m of the opinion we’re witnessing a great television program at its zenith. :)

          I disagree. I think BSG is still a rising star, not yet at it’s apex. I say that because I never, ever, ever thought TV could be this good, so obviously anything we think may be possible is just the beginning of where this show is going. We’re from 1901 and this show is the space program.

          • Fozzy_Bear says:

            Re: Shockingly Cool


            I say that because I never, ever, ever thought TV could be this good,…

            You must have missed Babylon 5. But I am with you in spirit… After B5, I thought I’d never see TV that good again. – I’m glad I was wrong.

            • Trekkie says:

              Re: Shockingly Cool

              You must have missed Babylon 5. But I am with you in spirit… After B5, I thought I’d never see TV that good again. – I’m glad I was wrong.

              Amen. Sleeping in Light. Best. Television. Show. Ever.

              Not that I don’t enjoy BSG at all, but it’s wonderful to have something to sprint to the TV for again.

              • Fozzy_Bear says:

                Re: Shockingly Cool

                … Sleeping in Light. Best. …

                Actually, I think Severed Dreams is my personal favorite. The speach at the end honestly gave me goose-bumps.

                And then, much later, when the actres who played Talia Winters (sorry, -can’t remember her name IRL) had moved on to become an anchor of CNN, It was out of her mouth that I first heard about the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. Man, I couldn’t shake the Night Watch images from my head for weeks.

                That was some REALLY scary stuff.

                • Trekkie says:

                  Re: Shockingly Cool

                  That was some REALLY scary stuff.

                  Still is for me, I see parallels everywhere. i’ve actually broke my tradition of watching all five seasons over the summer because it started to depress me.. a lot

              • J_W_W says:

                Re: Shockingly Cool

                You must have missed Babylon 5. But I am with you in spirit… After B5, I thought I’d never see TV that good again. – I’m glad I was wrong.

                Amen. Sleeping in Light. Best. Television. Show. Ever.

                Not that I don’t enjoy BSG at all, but it’s wonderful to have something to sprint to the TV for again.

                You have hit upon what it will take for Galactica to become my favorite show ever. They have to end better than Sleeping in Light, and that was the best show finale I’ve ever seen. Other B5 episodes were better, or should I say more exciting, but there are so many shows that fizzle out at the end or just fade away. B5 went out (quite literally) with a bang.

                I really hope Galactica will be limited to 5 seasons (or at most 7) because I think if it drags on it will get too tired and just fade away. What I expect of the finale for Galactica is nothing less (and nothing more) than a shot of the fleet approching Earth and a fade to black. We’ll have to see if that really happens.

                • Fozzy_Bear says:

                  Re: Shockingly Cool

                  …What I expect of the finale for Galactica is nothing less (and nothing more) than a shot of the fleet approching Earth and a fade to black. We’ll have to see if that really happens.

                  I have similar feelings. Except that _I_ hope that the Cylons lead them here. That would be a cool tie-in if the cylons found monotheism from their discovery of earth, and the " they have a plan" was all designed to bring the colonist here and reunite the human race.

                  If you wanted to "save the souls" of the entire colonial star system, you would obviously have to do something drastic..It would be the olny possible way to change the religion of all of the pegans. – Make them quest for Earth of their own desire, then simple allow them to find it (and spur them on, if they stall on a planet on the way)

                  I’m sure it’s asking too much… but still…

            • valen1260 says:

              Re: Shockingly Cool

              You must have missed Babylon 5. But I am with you in spirit… After B5, I thought I’d never see TV that good again. – I’m glad I was wrong.

              You know, I keep comparing "Exodus, Pt 2" to the White Star/Resistance forces entering the Solar System in "Endgame". You’re right. Not since the Agamemnon charged toward the defense grid have I been so glued to my television.

  3. Ogre says:

    Comments

    …did anyone think that Apollo would really sit back and let Dad go on a potential suicide run?

    Sci-fi recently aired the original BSG Pegasus episodes during the day. Once I saw those episodes, it kind of spoiled that plot line for me. But then again, it’s was done som much better this time.

    On a different note, when Tigh did his deed I thought "harsh, but in character." But 2 days later I’m finding it haunting…

    I was worried he would try to justify not killing her by playing the "We need a breeding population" card. I give him credit for doing his job and not giving it to someone else to do (thus allowing her to go peacefully) and feel sorry for him having to do it.

    There were a bucket of great moments in this episode – enough that it made me wish they stretched it into one more.

    Yeah, I definitely felt that this could have been stretched out into one more episode.

    • Dave says:

      Re: Comments

      Yeah, I definitely felt that this could have been stretched out into one more episode.

      It could have, but then it would’ve felt like two kinda-slow episodes. (See also Resurrection Ship, Parts 1 and 2.)

  4. Antti Helin says:

    Hyperrealism

    Seems awfully convenient that the broken hull of Pegasus would manage to collapse in such a way that part of it takes out one Basestar, and the rest splinters off and takes out a second Basestar. It may defy physics and/or common sense, but damn did it look cool.

    I recommend the podcast to everyone, it’s really enlightening. RDM explained that he admits that the Pegasus landing pod hitting the second Basestar was not exactly in line with the realism they’ve reached with the show. The effects people had suggested it, and they decided to put it in because it was just too damn cool, and they felt that the realism shouldn’t be so overbearing as to dry up the drama.

    I thought of it as a one in twenty million kind of long shot, and BSG has done so little to stretch my suspension of disbelief that I swallowed it whole, while wiping my eyes (Bear McCreary is a genius). I guess you could call it a low point, but it’s telling when something like that is the *low* point.

    The way Tigh deals with Ellen. We all knew Tigh was a bad-ass, but that’s just impressive.

    I hated Ellen, but that scene had me in tears. Over Tigh probably, I figure. He’s such a great man and has had to endure a lot. He was once again shadowed by Adama in the end, but this time Tigh just couldn’t really give a damn.

    And just wait until Tigh gets a black eyepatch. Good gods, you can’t get badasser than that.

    I really, really enjoyed the way the action scenes in space (and atmosphere!) were handled this week. The battles in Resurrection Ship or The Captain’s Hand weren’t really memorable, but this battle was the stuff of legend with three perfectly crafted scenes:

    1) The Galactica atmojump, which is utterly insane, and so beautiful. Not only is it so wondrously realistic because they’re actually using the FTL drive to its strategic potential, changing it from a convenience to a living technology (kinda like with the Raptors but at a bigger scale), but because the effects work was SO gorgeous. The past few years, I’ve stopped thinking "Wow, that’s some good SFX", instead I just soak it in.

    I think we’re approaching the line here where the SFX are just so good, it looks *real*. And again, McCreary is a genius, that little snippet (a modification of Battle on the Asteroid) with the flaming Galactica and the Vipers flying has made me watch that scene over and over again for about 30 times. The pens on the CIC plotting table say "Dixon Marker China".

    2) You have Galactica, and you have Adama, and they are surrounded by four Basestars, and it doesn’t look good. Adama is himself messing around with the wires, which is just a marvellous touch – I don’t think you see Picard ever do that! – and Adama looks around, realises he’s going to die, and just says "It’s been an honor." As RDM put it in the podcast, you truly define a character and find out something profound about them when you make them face death and see how they react. Adama reacted just the way I’d thought he would, and I love him even more.

    And then, you zoom out from the battle, the sounds fade away, and you are faced with the emptiness of space… and from outside the picture, shots fired at the Basestars, and the music picks up in tempo again. Even though we all knew Lee was going to come to the rescue, it was still a very touching scene, if only by the way they did it.

    And finally, 3) when Pegasus finally bites it. I waited for it to happen in Resurrection Ship, and again in Lay Down Your Burdens when Gina got the nuke, but now it finally happened. With bagpipes. "Thank you." I think it just goes to show how incredibly tough these battlestars are, because Pegasus didn’t actually explode from the direct impact per se, apparently the impact just caused the already weakened structure to give away just enough for the reactor or something to go off (or maybe they rigged it to blow, I don’t think so). It looked like the battlestars flew right through the Basestar, and then just couldn’t take it any more.

    And then you had the surface. Somehow, despite all the overwhelming evidence and logic, I was waiting for Gaeta to shoot Baltar, only for us to see Baltar download. I don’t know why, I think BSG would have jumped the shark there and then if it had happened. Also, Leoben is a bastard, and he’s only getting loonier now that he’s been downloaded at least eight times (Adama at Ragnar, Roslin in space, Starbuck six times).

    I wonder where we’ll go from here. It seems the people are picking up the pieces of their life, which is symbolised by the way they’ve started to look after their appearance again. Adama has put his hair back in order and shaved, Tyrol shaved already on the surface, Lee will probably start losing weight. And really, when you think about it, this four episode arc was actually a push of the reset button, but what a way to do it – and the events of New Caprica *will* continue to reverberate through the lives of the Cylons and the Colonials for the rest of the series, of course. I really hope we’ll get a look at Cylon society now that one of the main characters is with them, probably for good.

    In fact, this ep had some homage to the old Galactica going on – the Pegasus getting destroyed in an epic and heroic battle, and the traitor Baltar ending up with the Cylons.

    But yeah. My friend called this "the best forty minutes of his life" – I’d be a bit more cautious and call it the best forty minutes of science fiction I’ve seen. Part of this is fanboy gushing and I’ll probably get a bit more perspective later on, but right now at this moment, it doesn’t get – and hasn’t gotten – any better than this.

    Oh yeah, and I got my Baltar shirts. Wore one when watching this. :)

    • smeep says:

      Re: Hyperrealism

      And really, when you think about it, this four episode arc was actually a push of the reset button, but what a way to do it

      And that’s really the biggest complaint I have about BSG to date. They keep hitting the damn reset button. I thought for sure this time they would ruin the series for me with one more frakkin’ reset button. Plus, I figured that it would take alot of the season to resolve this, too. While the reset button is getting tired, at least this one ended with some damn fine story and damn fine action. (For those trying to keep score, there are two previous resets. The first being the split of the fleet between Adama and Rosalin , and I absolutely hated how that resolved… (never mind the treason that went on), and the second being the plot line of Admiral Cain. I just hope Moore stops with this type of writing.)

    • Babbster says:

      Re: Hyperrealism

      I think we’re approaching the line here where the SFX are just so good, it looks *real*. And again, McCreary is a genius, that little snippet (a modification of Battle on the Asteroid) with the flaming Galactica and the Vipers flying has made me watch that scene over and over again for about 30 times. The pens on the CIC plotting table say "Dixon Marker China".

      At the risk of seeming like a comple SFX whore (I’ve almost come to take the emotional twists and turns of BSG being great for granted), I feel the need to echo huge appreciation of the shot of the Viper launches. I was so totally immersed (after the second of dumbfounded amazement of the wide shot where Galactica jumped in) that I could almost feel the heat the Viper pilots had to be feeling as they launched out of the plummeting battlestar. Even knowing that Galactica had to survive (or the show would have to be renamed?), I was also feeling the stress of the battle between the ship and time/gravity the closer they got to the planet’s surface.

      I’m going to be thinking about this episode for a long time…

      • Babbster says:

        Re: Hyperrealism
        It suddenly occurs to me that none of us so far have been using spoiler tags – not that I particularly feel the need since it seems like rapid viewing of this episode had to be automatic for any B42 reader, but I’ll apologize to anyone who might be late anyway. :)

        • AveryRegier says:

          Re: Hyperrealism

          It suddenly occurs to me that none of us so far have been using spoiler tags – not that I particularly feel the need since it seems like rapid viewing of this episode had to be automatic for any B42 reader, but I’ll apologize to anyone who might be late anyway. :)

          Well, that would be me. I haven’t actually watched any BSG yet this season. It is all waiting for me on my DVR after I finish what I have of B5 again.

          -Avery

      • snarked says:

        Re: Hyperrealism

        Agreed with everyone, this was an incredible episode – I’ve watched it six times and am finding nuances everytime. And the SFX were fantastic!

        Two snarks:

        1) Vipers launching out of Galactica during the reentry – how did they keep the vipers from being torn to shreds by the slipstream?

        2) Pegasus’s port "outrigger" hitting the basestar after blowing up was just lucky pool. "8-ball in the corner off of the 7 and 13 balls…" … so far Lee has proven to be a damned lucky commander.

        One thing we saw here that I don’t think we’ve seen before, is a direct size comparison between the battlestars and basestars. I was surprised at how much larger the battlestars are. No wonder they can stomp on basestars, given competent handling.

        Tigh poisoning Ellen, then weeping over her, was *completely* in character, and very well done. At the start of that scene I was cringing, expecting Tigh to find some Out – but kudos to the scriptwriters, they carried it thru.

        Looks like we’re back on the quest, a little older and a lot wiser. The next few eps should be interesting!

        Cheers
        snarked
        (lurked here for a long time, finally found something to say :-) )

        • roseblood says:

          Re: Hyperrealism

          1) Vipers launching out of Galactica during the reentry – how did they keep the vipers from being torn to shreds by the slipstream?

          You know, the Galatica wasn’t entering the atmo at orbital velocities. It was only falling at the same speeds any object would when pulled down by gravity. It should have sunk like a rock (as it did) but not had a flaming wake. One assumes the velocity at the end of a jump is the same as the velocity one had going in. Why didn’t Galatica match velocites with the planet before jumping in? Oh yeah, we would not have had the awesome spectacle! Sometimes the drama trumps common sense or science.

          • justdrew says:

            Re: Hyperrealism

            You know, the Galatica wasn’t entering the atmo at orbital velocities. It was only falling at the same speeds any object would when pulled down by gravity. It should have sunk like a rock (as it did) but not had a flaming wake. One assumes the velocity at the end of a jump is the same as the velocity one had going in. Why didn’t Galatica match velocites with the planet before jumping in? Oh yeah, we would not have had the awesome spectacle! Sometimes the drama trumps common sense or science.

            most likely they TRIED to exit jump at a speed that would have put them stationary in the air (or even going ‘up’ a bit), but one reason this isn’t suposed to be done is it’s so difficult to control the vector on exit precisely. Hell if it was so easy, just put a nuke with a small FTL drive and jump it right inside the enemy. One thing they probably didn’t have time to go into: that jump into atmosphere PROBABLY required breifly networking their computer systems.
            ==

            oh and for those who didn’t get it… remeber the flashbacks of younger Adama? he always had a black ‘stash back in the old days. He grew it back and died it black so he’d look/feel/seem younger and ready to do the impossible, not just for his crew but for himself.

            • snarked says:

              Re: Hyperrealism

              Obviously the Galactica hadn’t matched velocities with the planet perfectly, otherwise, no plasma sheath ;-) so imperfect matching velocities (and if one adds the planet’s rotation into there, that *really* complicates things ;-)

              I’ll add, however, that perfectly matching velocities would have given the planetary defenses (whatever they are) a much easier target, so coming in as fast as they can makes sense from a tactical standpoint – as long as your timing is *impeccable* and nothing malfunctions on the way down… *grin* the Galactica impacting the surface would have ruined everyone’s day.

              Adama was quite literally betting everything on Sharon’s navigation and the skills of his crew. Hence I have to agree with your mustache comment ;-)

              I still can’t get over how kickass that scene was. I don’t think that’s *ever* been done in movie or tv scifi (other than the Raptors jumping in-atmo at the end of S2.) Gods of Kobol!

              cheers
              snarked

              • roseblood says:

                Re: Hyperrealism

                Obviously the Galactica hadn’t matched velocities with the planet perfectly, otherwise, no plasma sheath ;-) so imperfect matching velocities (and if one adds the planet’s rotation into there, that *really* complicates things ;-)

                SNIP

                cheers
                snarked

                You think that durring the "ONE YEAR LATER" gap that someone would have noticed the orbital paramaters of the planet they lived on/in orbit around. The matching of velocities could be done at quite some distance away if one has a good way to rient oneself in space (Pick 6 stars and use them as points of refrence in a 3d map for example.) Jump with a low relative velocity, or even aim for an upwards vector and extend your "hang time" or have a greater saftey margin when you use the same time between jumping in and out. But it would not have looked nearly as cool!

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: Hyperrealism

          One thing we saw here that I don’t think we’ve seen before, is a direct size comparison between the battlestars and basestars. I was surprised at how much larger the battlestars are. No wonder they can stomp on basestars, given competent handling.

          I noticed that, too. Adama seemed quite confident that they could handle two basestars, but not four.

          Tigh poisoning Ellen, then weeping over her, was *completely* in character, and very well done. At the start of that scene I was cringing, expecting Tigh to find some Out – but kudos to the scriptwriters, they carried it thru.

          Agreed, very well done. However, I think Ellen knew what was coming (judging by the looks when she asked for a drink and her lack of fear when she started to feel the effects), and poisoned herself. She saved herself from a painful death, and saved Tigh from having to "actually" kill her.

          • snarked says:

            Re: Hyperrealism

            We knew from Resurrection Ship (? haven’t rewatched in a while) and the battle there that basestars are quite capable of one-on-one with basestars; now I’m wondering how it would have turned out if Galactica and Pegasus had jumped in together for the liberation attack, I suspect the outcome would have been considerably different – but, of course, Moore had to get rid of the Pegasus sooner or later.

            The manner in which he did was excellent. It could have been terribly done. Kudos, Ron & co.

            I’m of two minds as to whether or not Ellen saw what was coming. I can see your point, and agree with it, but I’m still not sure. I’ll have to watch it again (hope the VHS tape holds up, I’ve been doing an awful lot of rewinding/replaying, and it’s old, this tape had some eps from season one on it at one time ;-) .)

            The thing that stops me from believing that she did, was that Ellen was (despite her "sacrifices" on behalf of Tigh) incredibly self-centered – it really wouldn’t be in character for her to accept death, no matter the circumstances. But you may well be right. In any case, Moore certainly left that open enough to question that fans will be arguing about it for quite a while…

            Also, I’m not sure that, say, Zarek, would have given her a "painful" death. Bullet to the head, more likely. Zarek doesn’t seem to be one to play the vengeful sort in that sort of situation.

            But it’s an interesting question nonetheless…

            cheers!
            snarked

    • snarked says:

      Re: Hyperrealism

      Seems awfully convenient that the broken hull of Pegasus would manage to collapse in such a way that part of it takes out one Basestar, and the rest splinters off and takes out a second Basestar. It may defy physics and/or common sense, but damn did it look cool.

      I don’t think it defied neither physics nor common sense. It was just luck, and poor foresight on the part of the Cylons, closing to fistacuffs range as they did. The Battlestars are much larger than the basestars, and the debris has to go *somewhere*.

      (BTW, if one slow-mo’s the frames during the ramming, one can see explosions proceeding along her upper spine from the front of the Pegasus to the back, at which point her engine section blows. Quite cool, and wonderful attention to detail. That’s the way it *should* be done!)

      I recommend the podcast to everyone, it’s really enlightening. RDM explained that he admits that the Pegasus landing pod hitting the second Basestar was not exactly in line with the realism they’ve reached with the show. The effects people had suggested it, and they decided to put it in because it was just too damn cool, and they felt that the realism shouldn’t be so overbearing as to dry up the drama.

      Realism or not – and I don’t think it can be so easily dismissed as not real – it does have a bearing on the episodes after this. One less basestar.

      I thought of it as a one in twenty million kind of long shot, and BSG has done so little to stretch my suspension of disbelief that I swallowed it whole, while wiping my eyes (Bear McCreary is a genius).

      Damned straight. :-)

      Lee is a lucky commander. The Bear is just plain incredible. I’ve had people coming by at work while I was playing his tracks and ask where that "incredible" music is from.

      And just wait until Tigh gets a black eyepatch. Good gods, you can’t get badasser than that.

      Yarr!

      Not only is it so wondrously realistic because they’re actually using the FTL drive to its strategic potential,

      My thought as well. Of course, they did need a Cylon to accomplish that navigation feat.

      2) You have Galactica, and you have Adama, and they are surrounded by four Basestars, and it doesn’t look good. Adama is himself messing around with the wires, which is just a marvellous touch – I don’t think you see Picard ever do that!

      Star Trek rarely, if ever had that sort of grit. The closest I can think of is Kirk in Generations.

      – and Adama looks around, realises he’s going to die, and just says "It’s been an honor."s RDM put it in the podcast, you truly define a character and find out something profound about them when you make them face death and see how they react. Adama reacted just the way I’d thought he would, and I love him even more.

      From the miniseries on, we always knew that Adama valued his people. That, and Olmos’s wonderful acting, that sincerity he can project, have really contributed to making him *real*.

      Even though we all knew Lee was going to come to the rescue, it was still a very touching scene, if only by the way they did it.

      I honestly wouldn’t have been surprised if either Bill or Lee had bought it in that fight. Especially after all the hints that we were going to lose an "important character" – I expected it to be either Lee, or Bill.

      Also, Leoben is a bastard, and he’s only getting loonier now that he’s been downloaded at least eight times (Adama at Ragnar, Roslin in space, Starbuck six times).

      Kind of make one wonder about the mental effects of being killed and reborn ;-)

      In fact, this ep had some homage to the old Galactica going on – the Pegasus getting destroyed in an epic and heroic battle, and the traitor Baltar ending up with the Cylons.

      But much *better* than in the original series ;-)

      But yeah. My friend called this "the best forty minutes of his life" – I’d be a bit more cautious and call it the best forty minutes of science fiction I’ve seen. Part of this is fanboy gushing and I’ll probably get a bit more perspective later on, but right now at this moment, it doesn’t get – and hasn’t gotten – any better than this.

      I’ve been watching scifi on tv (with a 8 year hiatus) since the mid 70s, and I’ll say that in my opinion, it *doesn’t* get any better than this. The series, I mean. Moore is a genius – look at huge amounts of crap remakes over the decades, and how good this show is… and it makes one want to give the studios a kick right in their *bleeped* – because it *could have been done before* – just that nobody had the guts.

      I’m just hoping that others (*cough*SciFi*cough) learn from this. Get some frakking decent writers.

      Cheers!
      snarked

  5. Jethro says:

    Tigh and Ellen
    Man, that was unbelievable. And SUCH a high-point.

    I’ll admit it. We all should – we were totally wrong about Ellen. She always said she was pushing and doing all her annoying crap for Tigh, and we all thought "Bull… she’s doing it for herself."

    But she wasn’t. She really, truly loved him. Sure, what she did was INCREDIBLY stupid. She practically risked the entire human race for him.

    It’s been clear in the past that Tigh had his doubts about her too, but that he loved her anyway.

    Now he finally got proof that she really did love him more intensly than anyone can really hope for… and he knows he has to kill her. Why? Because that’s the only way that she’ll NOT die in horrible agony and fear.

    And after he does that, he manages to pick himself up and do the other difficult stuff he needs to do.

    I seriously never liked Tigh. I’m still not too crazy about him, but do I /ever/ respect him.

    Frankly I think this episode should’ve scored like 8 out of 6 on emoptional response, and maybe a 7 for effects.

    The Casey thing is kinda, meh. Good solution, but that kid was awfully calm for someone who was taken form her mom.

    • snarked says:

      Re: Tigh and Ellen

      That’s a pretty possessive sort of love, tho – betraying a large portion of the human race for the sake of your husband and lover.

      So I have to say that I still think what she did was pretty self-centered; although I’m willing to be convinced otherwise ;-)

      Casey being claimed by her real mother was one of those Moore short, sharp shocks we’ve all grown fond of. I suspect that the real emotional jags we see from that will come down the line; it’s a new experience for Starbuck, as was being enslaved in that way, and it’ll take her a while to recover, especially if the mother lets Starbuck visit…

      cheers!
      snarked

  6. joe__gee says:

    High points …
    Does it get any better than this? Holy shit. Pardon me whilst I rave.

    I cried tears for both Ellen and Saul, that Ellen was revealed to have a soul, and that Saul loved her so much. She had one of the more memorable exits I have ever seen for an anti-hero, and it was beautifully played. You know I now realize I actually love that grizzled old bastard Tigh a tiny bit.

    I also felt, deeply, for him, at the end of the episode. "Adama, Adama, Adama!" At Adama’s moment of triumph, Tigh, Adama’s hand on New Caprica, was totally eclipsed, and he sacrificed as much as anyone, if not more so. He’ll get no new eye, and no new Ellen.

    How I CHEERED when I saw Galactica jump into atmo. Holy shit again! I scared the hell out of my cats. And when it jumped back out after having released the vipers. I knew the Cylons had to be sweating at that point — the old man had gone over the edge. That was just absolutely EXTREME, and beautifully done. The coming of Galactica was one of the most thrilling things I have ever seen on television. :)

    And I liked the shot of the vipers taking out the toaster in the turret defending the ship yard. It was awesome to finally see the sky full of vipers, instead of raiders.

    I thought Leoben’s use of the human child was particularly slimey. That evil S.O.B. If you want a chuckle, look back at last week’s review at our conjecture.

    I loved the large tears in Baltar’s eyes during his final minutes in Colonial One. Damn Jamie Callas is a helluva actor. I think I see where the Cylon arc will go. Baltar the unsung hero? COOL. :)

    It was great to see Roslyn sitting back at the desk on Colonial One "I am ready to leave now." That was pleasurable, even it was predictable.

    My quibbles were minor:

    The Galactica was still far enough up in the atmosphere that the sonic boom and the shock wave from her jumping back out would have been delayed by several seconds, maybe as many as ten. She should have jumped out silently, then BOOM CRASH. No major deal.

    The best sci fi series ever? A show of hands? This is great television being made. I would not be surprised to see Galactica nominated for, and win, an Emmy this year for best drama. Wow. :)

    End rave.

    Next week it looks like we begin a season that explores the darkest side of humanity and the best side of the Cylons. The writers love twisting our preceptions, don’t they?

    -Joe

    P.S. I have grown beyond fan-boy, that’s fan-MAN, thank you. :P

    • jesusX says:

      Re: High points …

      The best sci fi series ever?

      To say teh bar has been rasied for anyone else coming afterwards is to put it mildly. I think we can safely say we have not just the greatest SciFi show, but frankly the greatest Scifi period, show, movie, book, story, poster, merchandising tie in, whatever. No science fiction has ever been better than this. And personally, I’ve never seen better television, period. I’ve just never been more satisfied by any form of fiction.

      • rickyjames says:

        Re: High points …
        Once there was this show called Firefly…

        • Trekkie says:

          Re: High points …

          Once there was this show called Firefly…

          As much as I loved the firefly universe, no.

          Babylon 5 holds the crown, Firefly was a contender that was cut down in it’s prime, and BSG is close to eclipsing Bab5.

          • Fozzy_Bear says:

            Re: High points …

            … and BSG is close to eclipsing Bab5.

            For me, I finally started refering to both of them (B5 and BSG) in the same context after the ep Downloaded. When they showed the link and symetry between baltar and Caprica 6, I finally broke down and started to allow that this was on the same caliber.

            It’s easy to forget after all this time after B5 how well a Sci-Fi show CAN be written. Long term continuity CAN exist and plot integrity doesn’t HAVE TO be sacrificed to keep the same actors in the principal roles.

            I’m glad to see somebody other than JMS (and Joss Wheaton) pulling off great TV. Maybe there’s hope for this medium yet.

          • snarked says:

            Re: High points …

            For myself I don’t have a dichotomy between Firefly and BSG because they are really two different kinds of show. Firefly was more space opera, like the original Star Wars, while BSG is more social commentary laced into a hard scifi background.

            In any case, I love ’em both. I find myself laughing more at Firefly, and thinking more with BSG.

            I never watched B5, as I spent those years avoiding tv entirely, so I won’t comment on that…

            cheers!
            snarked

            • Fozzy_Bear says:

              Re: High points …

              I never watched B5, as I spent those years avoiding tv entirely, so I won’t comment on that…

              Not to get all "fan boy" on you or anything, but strictly as an FYI:

              If you are enjoying BSG, the odds are, you will consider it well worth your time to hunt down and watch B5. Just be sure to watch it from the beginning, and be ready to allow a few eppisodes for the story to get you involved.

              Just imagine what it must be like if only now, people are starting to compare BSG to it.

              You’ll be glad you did.

    • Trekkie says:

      Re: High points …

      The Galactica was still far enough up in the atmosphere that the sonic boom and the shock wave from her jumping back out would have been delayed by several seconds, maybe as many as ten. She should have jumped out silently, then BOOM CRASH. No major deal.

      If you’re going to quibble, don’t forget that the civillian ships all jumped out with nothing more than a whimper and there should have been thunderclapping left and right.

      Edge of my seat episode. Several verbal exclamations during the fight sequences including ‘when that thing jumps out there better be a ‘ BOOOOM ‘oh wow, they remembered’ ;)

      • joe__gee says:

        Re: High points …

        Edge of my seat episode. Several verbal exclamations during the fight sequences including ‘when that thing jumps out there better be a ‘ BOOOOM ‘oh wow, they remembered’ ;)

        Yup. :)

        -Joe

      • snarked says:

        Re: High points …

        The Galactica was still far enough up in the atmosphere that the sonic boom and the shock wave from her jumping back out would have been delayed by several seconds, maybe as many as ten. She should have jumped out silently, then BOOM CRASH. No major deal.

        The last time I watched it, I did some quick mental calculations, and figured that Galactica was probably only a kilometer up when she jumped. Mostly based on guesses of her apparent vs. "real" size.

        If you’re going to quibble, don’t forget that the civillian ships all jumped out with nothing more than a whimper and there should have been thunderclapping left and right.

        Edge of my seat episode. Several verbal exclamations during the fight sequences including ‘when that thing jumps out there better be a ‘ BOOOOM ‘oh wow, they remembered’ ;)

        Here, too. But I just had the thought that maybe the shockwave that actually hit was really the shockwave produced by Galactica’s rapid descent, and not by the jump itself (although the jumps should produce an implosion thunderclap, like you said). *handwaves* ;-)

        snarked

  7. rickyjames says:

    What Does It Take….
    …to justify using a nuke on BSG? Or rather, your entire fracking nuclear arsenal? Obviously something more dire than being surrounded by four Cylon Basestars…

    Honestly, that is the thing that gets me most about space battles in ANY universe – Trek, Wars, BSG, you name it. They ignore the military potential of weaponry WE’VE had for half a century. Two Basestars? No problem. An unmanned Raptor jump in 100 yards away from a Basestar – c’mon, we’ve seen they can jump into a particular valley flying at full speed – and detonate a 20 megaton nuke 20 milliseconds after materializing. On to Step Two of the rescue…

    Yeah, yeah, yeah, how do you write for drama in such a world…. I don’t know either. But don’t call the space battle scenes in Galactica "realistic" – call them beautiful, because they are. As beautiful, and imaginary, as unicorns…

    • Dave says:

      Re: What Does It Take….

      …to justify using a nuke on BSG? Or rather, your entire fracking nuclear arsenal? Obviously something more dire than being surrounded by four Cylon Basestars…

      Bear in mind their arsenal consists of, I think, three nukes. I believe that, early in the first season, they said they had five. One was used on the Basestar in "Kobol’s Last Gleaming," and one was given to Baltar for his Cylon detector, which ended up in Gina’s hands and took out Cloud Nine.

      Also, against capital-ship sized targets, they don’t seem to be that effective. In the miniseries, Galactica takes a direct impact from a nuke, and while there’s some damage, it’s obviously not enough to take out the whole ship. The only way they were able to nuke a Basestar was by detonating the nuke from INSIDE the ship. (Presumably, if an external detonation would have been sufficient, they would have done that – they had the Cylon transponder, so they easily could have gotten close enough to drop off a nuke and jump back out in the Raptor, then detonate the nuke before the Basestar could jump away itself.)

      In Galactica, nukes are much better against soft squishy targets than heavily-armored ones, kinda like how things are today.

      • Babbster says:

        Re: What Does It Take….
        A character in The Sum Of All Fears by Tom Clancy put nukes in sort of an interesting perspective by saying something like this: "A nuclear bomb is simply a large explosive with some interesting side effects." In space, of course, those "interesting side effects" (particularly the radiation) would be even less important than in a planet’s biosphere, and less important still to a mostly mechanical race, assuming they’ve been hardened against the EMP effect. Where a nuke would seem to come in handy in BSG terms would be to use it to punch a hole in thick armor, through which more conventional (and more common) explosive devices could then be delivered.

        In any case, I’m willing to trust that the Adamas would know the best tactics for space battles – or, at least, they know how to make them look awesome. ;)

      • roseblood says:

        Re: What Does It Take….

        Also, against capital-ship sized targets, they don’t seem to be that effective. In the miniseries, Galactica takes a direct impact from a nuke, and while there’s some damage, it’s obviously not enough to take out the whole ship. The only way they were able to nuke a Basestar was by detonating the nuke from INSIDE the ship.

        In space there is no atmosphere to carry an overpressure wave so there is no concussive effect to explosions that do not happen in direct contact with a ships hull. You get radiation (Xray, Gama, UV, IR[HEAT!], microwave etc.) and you get fragmentation, but no big shockwave to really rock the boat (most of the damage done by nukes on earth is not from the atomic fire but the shockwave that travels outward and demolishes everything in its path. The next thing on the list is the thermal pulse that sets things afire (really bad after the shockwave has knocked things over and shattered everyhing into kindling) but if the mass of a battlestar is high enough the thermal pulse will not result in a great deal of heating of the hull (save for some localized hotspots nearest the blast.)

        Basicly, nukes aren’t so great in space.

        Oh yes, defensive fire . . . incoming ordanance is engaged and destroyed before it impacts . . . look how effective the Battlestars have been at their AAA fire . . . how many incoming warheads have we seen actualy get past the BARCAP (Barrier Combat Air Patroll) and the A A A (Anti Aircraft Artillery). A small number of nukes don’t have much of a chance of getting past a storm of hot metal fragments to impact on an enemy hull. High velicity rounds (in flight so short a time they are hard to intercept) and directed energy weapons (no lasers, phasers, distrupters, or any of that in this show) are the only things likely to be effective in the BSG combat enviroment.

        • snarked says:

          Re: What Does It Take….

          While I mostly agree with you, I don’t imagine it’d take much effort to surround a nuke with materials that produce a hard particle shockwave front. How effective that would be, I don’t know, it’s been a long time since college physics.

          There was a huge debate about that a long time ago on alt.tv.bsg, IIRC. All this was argued almost to death, er, downloading ;-)

          Battlestar ack-ack is one of the incredible things about the show – in our first battle, the Ragnor battle, I was astounded by how "real" Moore made that. It’s exactly what one would expect out of close/low relative V combat between spacecraft. Plus, the battlestars are built with it in mind, obviously. The basestars can field much more missiles and small craft – probably because of their much higher automation – so it makes sense that a battlestar would have very, very good defenses. I’ve always been a fan of David Weber’s Honor Harrington series for that same reason – that the ships armament and defenses *make sense* and aren’t just a bunch of turbolasers or what have you. (eat poo, Lucas)

          (If the missiles can’t get near you, it doesn’t matter whether they are nukes or not, like you said.)

          On the gripping hand, the Galactica, at least, was obviously designed and armored to withstand close-order nuclear detonations, which implies that nukes were much more widely used during the first war, and that even near-misses can be incredibly destructive (as we saw at Ragnor*). That makes her ability to survive much greater in battles without nukes.

          *One has to remember just how *big* the Galactica is as well.

          cheers!
          snarked

  8. quantaman says:

    Consequences
    I’m not going to bother with spoiler tags since the review itself was already riddled with spoilers :)

    It’s going to be very interesting how they reintegrate everyone, first you have the case of the Pegasus crew who now have no ship, what’s Apollo going to do now that he no longer has a ship to captain, his rank suggests he should be Galactica’s second in command but that will displace Tigh.

    More importantly, what are the members of the resistance going to do? Tigh was willing to go through with killing his wife even though he knew they had a very good chance of escaping. Is he going to go soft with remorse or start a witch hunt looking for collaborators?

    Oh yeah, since Baltar is with the Cylons and I think Tom Zarek was still the VP is Zarek now the President?

    • Dave says:

      Re: Consequences

      Oh yeah, since Baltar is with the Cylons and I think Tom Zarek was still the VP is Zarek now the President?

      Technically, he probably is, as Baltar presumably is in absentia. I hope that doesn’t mean I need to make new shirts…

    • Radish03 says:

      Re: Consequences

      More importantly, what are the members of the resistance going to do? Tigh was willing to go through with killing his wife even though he knew they had a very good chance of escaping. Is he going to go soft with remorse or start a witch hunt looking for collaborators?

      It’s not so much that he killed her because he was afraid she might betray him again, it was that if he didn’t do it, someone else in the resistance probably would have in a much less peaceful way.

      You also bring up a question about collaborators that I hadn’t thought about. Did the police force the cylons had trained exacuate with the rest of the population? How severely will they be punished if (or when, as would be my guess) they are found out, whether they admit it out of guilt, or are found out through some other means.

      • babasyzygy says:

        Re: Consequences

        You also bring up a question about collaborators that I hadn’t thought about. Did the police force the cylons had trained exacuate with the rest of the population? How severely will they be punished if (or when, as would be my guess) they are found out, whether they admit it out of guilt, or are found out through some other means.

        I fully expect that there will be an amnesty (a la South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission), probably with some scenes of tension. I hope they don’t make too big a deal of it (mostly because I’ve *seen* those movies and want BSG to cover different ground).

        • Radish03 says:

          Re: Consequences
          A bit after I posted I happened across a site which had the future episode airing dates and titles posted, and I noticed that the next episode’s title is Collaborators, so I’m assuming they’re going to take this issue on very directly.

        • bombadil says:

          Re: Consequences

          … collaborators …

          Am I the only one that stuck around to watch the ‘next week on Battlestar Galactica’ teaser? Yes, Tigh and Starbuck lead some nasty revenge against the collaborators.

          • J_W_W says:

            Re: Consequences

            … collaborators …

            Am I the only one that stuck around to watch the ‘next week on Battlestar Galactica’ teaser? Yes, Tigh and Starbuck lead some nasty revenge against the collaborators.

            Actually, where only meant to think that Tigh and Starbuck are involved. They’ve done some pretty nasty cuts in previews before to try and make us think certain things.

          • quantaman says:

            Re: Consequences

            … collaborators …

            Am I the only one that stuck around to watch the ‘next week on Battlestar Galactica’ teaser? Yes, Tigh and Starbuck lead some nasty revenge against the collaborators.

            I didn’t watch the tease at all but I wonder if there might be some backlash against some of the extremes the resistance went to. Other than the police we had the cylons talking about how there were human farmers working with the cylons (who knows how many of them made it off). Given there was a peace movement when the Cylons were in pure killing mode I wouldn’t be surprised if at this point there will be a fair number of humans in the fleet who think they can find some sort of compromise with the cylons. The cylons might even start using the humans who are still with the cylons for propoganda purposes, cylon downloading suggests they might have FTL communications so maybe some sort of broadcast.

  9. snarked says:

    A few thoughts

    Lee’s tactics were abysmal. It’s obvious his most powerful armament was most effective when he could use all of it at once (ie, engaging the enemy head-on). He should have orbited the formation of basestars and poured his fire into them, rather than moving into the center where they could all target him. He already had enough of a distraction to save Galactica.

    Anyone here who’s ever played space combat games where your spinal mount armament is the most powerful? Any thoughts?

    There’s one basestar left, it can be seen in the two quick zoom-to-background shots after the Pegasus rammed. I’ll bet that basestar is the one that the remaining Cylon "VIPs" and Baltar decamp to, and the one that continues the pursuit of the colonists. That should be *really* interesting.

    Starbuck also appeared very upset at the end when Adama is being feted. It’ll be interesting to see where that goes, considering her admiration of Adama (and Tigh’s).

    Lee Adama, as some have noted, is now a ‘captain of the list’, sans ship. Starbuck has his old job, and while she’s a bit out of practice, I can’t imagine her giving it up, unless… she goes back to her raving drunken lunacy that she had during late season 2. I foresee conflicts between her and Lee, regardless of which way it goes.

    cheers
    snarked

    • Babbster says:

      Re: A few thoughts

      Lee Adama, as some have noted, is now a ‘captain of the list’, sans ship. Starbuck has his old job, and while she’s a bit out of practice, I can’t imagine her giving it up, unless… she goes back to her raving drunken lunacy that she had during late season 2. I foresee conflicts between her and Lee, regardless of which way it goes.

      In theory, Apollo could be made Galactica’s commander while the Admiral maintains overall military control (the former commands the ship while the latter commands the mission). This is a pretty common situation in navies on our planet, where an admiral of a fleet has a flagship while that flagship is directly commanded by a captain. Of course, that would make Tigh Apollo’s XO, which could be an interesting dynamic. Whether they do something like this or try to revert to the status quo, I agree that there will be some interesting command issues.

      • snarked says:

        Re: A few thoughts

        Oh, good points. Hadn’t thought of the chain of command in that sense – makes sense.

        I wonder if Tigh, considering his injuries, will be brought back to a combat-effective status anytime soon? I don’t imagine the loss of an eye would really affect his position as XO, but not all his injuries are physical, either. I hope Moore shows his first private conversation with Adama after the reuniting, because that would be a huge emotion-wrencher – and it seemed to me that Adama regretted Tigh being left out at the end.

        It is certainly going to be interesting to see how Moore handles this. One other thing I just thought of is that Starbuck hasn’t flown a Viper in over a year – will she have to/can she requalify? Can she get back in the hotseat again? Will she want to? She wasn’t exactly emotionally stable before all this…

        Cheers!
        snarked

        • J_W_W says:

          Re: A few thoughts

          It is certainly going to be interesting to see how Moore handles this. One other thing I just thought of is that Starbuck hasn’t flown a Viper in over a year – will she have to/can she requalify? Can she get back in the hotseat again? Will she want to? She wasn’t exactly emotionally stable before all this…

          Cheers!
          snarked

          She’d better!! I’ve had it with emotionally unstable Starbuck. I want to see a pissed off Starbuck kicking cylon butt.

    • roseblood says:

      Re: A few thoughts

      Anyone here who’s ever played space combat games where your spinal mount armament is the most powerful? Any thoughts?

      Two diffrent camps on that . . . there is the ship is built around the weapon system (Think the A-10 Thunderbolt built around it’s 40mm cannon) with an axial mounted cannon of some sort.

      Alternatively there are tube launched ordinance carriers. Be the tubes missle batteries or gun barrels. This is the situation we have had in modern naval warfare. Even in the age of missiles one often turns broadside to the enemy, if not to present more weapons to the enemy, but to unmask more defensive weapons meant to intercept enemy aircraft/missiles.

      A ship that can VLS (Vertical Launch System) missiles in a 360 degree arc is going to be able to deliver all it’s offensive punch irregardless of what way it is steaming. But the same VLS ship with defensive weapons mounted port, aft, and amidships will only be able to use all of them in defence if she faces broadside to the line of enemy approach. If you face the enemy your hull will mask the fire of many of your weapon systems.

      If Galatica is built like modern warships then she will carry most of her defensive weapons spread about along length of her hull.

      Although, I agree, being surrounded is very bad, your options for manuver are limited. Although damage received is likely to be spread about to multiple locations instead of being concentrated (enemies on all sides, instead of all enemy fire pounding, say, your port side) and defensive weapons on the all sides of your hull can be used to intercept incoming ordinance. In a game situation where damage is subtracted from a shipwide pool of "hitpoints" it wont matter where you are hit, but in the BSG universe where each piece of armor can defelect/absorb its own alottment of damage seperate from any other piece of armor taking diffuse fire is better than concentrated fire.

      Better to take 5 shots into a bullet proof vest at 5 diffrent points of impact instead of a tight grouping of 5 shots to the same point of impact where you are likely to cause a failure in the body armor.

      • snarked says:

        Re: A few thoughts

        Well, yes – but this isn’t 2D/limited 3D naval warfare ;-).

        It seemed to me that the placement of the main batteries – the ones that were firing when Pegasus entered the battle – are such that the highest number of those guns would bear on the target when the target is directly ahead. They were staggered axiswise around the ship’s hull in such a way that all of them could only bear on a target directly ahead.

        Broadsides: Galactica’s best defensive – and, it seems, offensive – aspect seems to be with her top or bottom sides presented to the enemy, as we saw at Ragnor. I suppose one could call that a "broadside" – but we haven’t seen whether or not Galactica’s heaviest batteries are also located that way. I got the impression that Pegasus’s were not. Perhaps it is because they are two different classes of ship? The Galactica being an "air defense carrier" while Pegasus is an "attack carrier" sort of like Weber’s different carrier classes in his starfire novels. IE Galactica is built more for standoff small craft support while Pegasus is built to get into the thick of the action, with her small craft acting to keep the raiders off her back.

        Things to think about… I’m no expert on any of this in terms of today’s military, so this is quite fun to talk about ;-)

        It does make the tactics situation quite important. I for one would not charge into the middle of a group of ships already pounding one of mine who is in the center. Orbit around the group and take shots where you can – in addition to cutting down on the amount of enemy fire (unless the Cylons are willing to take friendly fire casualties, which wouldn’t be surprising) it has the advantage that you can task your fire on only one aspect rather than several. That’s *got* to make your firing solutions easier. Of course in the situation we saw, that also makes the chances of friendly fire impacts from unguided munitions higher, as well…

        cheers!
        snarked

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: A few thoughts

      Lee’s tactics were abysmal. … He should have orbited the formation of basestars and poured his fire into them, rather than moving into the center where they could all target him.

      Agreed. Surrounding yourself is never a good strategy.

      There’s one basestar left… I’ll bet that basestar is the one that the remaining Cylon "VIPs" and Baltar decamp to, and the one that continues the pursuit of the colonists. That should be *really* interesting.

      You’re assuming there will be pursuit. They have Hera. Also, there’s still a Resurrection Ship somewhere nearby.

      Starbuck has his old job

      Actually, I think Cat has the job (CAG) formerly held by Apollo and Starbuck. I’m guessing most of the former-military colonists must have resigned to some effect. Thus, Tigh and Starbuck (among others, including the without-rank Chief) shouldn’t be allowed to just resume duty. Of course, that’s not taking into account the severe lack of personnel. Personally, I like Helo and Dualla as XOs.

      • snarked says:

        Re: A few thoughts

        I’ve always suspected that allowing oneself to be englobed by capital ships is a bad idea *grin*

        If there *isn’t* pursuit, then this show could get pretty boring. The search for Earth would end up just being a lot of jumping around, Raptor searches, and internal politics. Somehow I don’t think Moore is going to take it that way. Sans Cylons, the show loses a lot of it’s edge.

        Any nearby Resurrection Ships will just have to take their chances *grin*

        But you do raise an interesting question as to the motives of the Cylon ground command group (Doral’s motives, we know, will Sharon override him? Why should she? Questions, questions…) – Baltar’s motives don’t seem to be of much consequence, right now, unless things change, or Baltar’s Six pushes her viewpoint 0 which the Sharon in this group shares.

        Cat has the CAG? I must have missed something, but then I haven’t rewatched the end of S2 yet. (this six month hiatus sucks!).

        Agreed about Tigh, Starbuck, Tyrol, etc… they’ve been out of the action for a while – which will be interesting in and of itself, especially if they see action in the near future, and Adama needs their individual talents.

        I don’t think Helo has the experience to be an XO, he’s a pilot who has never "worked" the bridge or CIC. Dualla, maybe, if she has officer’s training in tactics, etc. She certainly has buttloads of bridge experience and has shown she can think on her feet – and she’s assertive as hell.

        Sometimes I think they should have called this episode "Resurrection" *grin*

        cheers!
        snarked

        • quantaman says:

          Re: A few thoughts

          If there *isn’t* pursuit, then this show could get pretty boring. The search for Earth would end up just being a lot of jumping around, Raptor searches, and internal politics. Somehow I don’t think Moore is going to take it that way. Sans Cylons, the show loses a lot of it’s edge.

          Going by number three’s talk with Baltar (how the humans won’t forgive the Cylons) the Cylons are going to go pretty hard after the fleet for reasons of self preservation if nothing else, they presumably have enough humans left so the destruction of the fleet doesn’t mean the destruction of humanity.

  10. rsilvetz says:

    Amazing Galactica Combat Drop
    Well, I just replayed the Galactica combat drop on my 55-inch Sony. And then I replayed it… again and again. Awesome. Matched of course by the Pegasus entry and sacrifice. I didn’t expect the combat drop to be equalled by another scene in the same episode.

    Makes you wonder how much Ambrosia you have to drink to do a combat drop into atmo at 99K feet with a ship with the aerodynamics of a brick — and FTL out with 10K feet to spare….

    Pyschological effect of scene was tremendous: No holds barred to win our freedom from the damnable toasters. All in. Maximal effort.

  11. bombadil says:

    Wow!
    High Point: ‘Damn you Lee…’ ‘Thank you Lee…’
    Low Point: With less than 50,000 humans left alive, wasn’t there a pretty good chance Starbuck would KNOW who Casey was? That would have ruined Leoban’s trick…

    • snarked says:

      Re: Wow!

      Adama: yes, I loved that. "Damn you, Lee" for disobeying orders, and "thank you, lee" for coming back to save his ass… this’ll make the conflict between them even more interesting. I imagine Lee will get a dressing-down and then a hug ;-)

      I doubt that Starbuck would know who Casey was. Think of a city with 50k people in it – it’d be nearly impossible for anyone – much less a military officer who is more or less insulated from the civilians – to know everyone.

      I have to say that Leoben’s psychological torture of Starbuck was very well done; and by that I mean that it wasn’t overdone. I particularly liked her killing him, then he comes back, and she knew he would… that’s a pretty serious mindfrak there ;-)

      Cheers!
      snarked

      • bombadil says:

        Re: Wow!

        I have to say that Leoben’s psychological torture of Starbuck was very well done; and by that I mean that it wasn’t overdone. I particularly liked her killing him, then he comes back, and she knew he would… that’s a pretty serious mindfrak there ;-)

        I am just sorry that the little kid had to see a murder at knifepoint. It appeared that Starbuck regretting that too, as she hesitated and looked at Casey before doing it. Then again, this is war, and Casey has been abducted from her parents by a genocidal machine who has nuked most everyone she grew up with. Pretty much impossible to insulate her from some bad things at this point.

        • bombadil says:

          Re: Wow!

          …Casey has been abducted from her parents by a genocidal machine who has nuked most everyone she grew up with. Pretty much impossible to insulate her from some bad things at this point.

          Just to add to my own post, I am fairly certain that Leoban purposely caused the fall that hurt Casey to garner sympathy from Starbuck.

          • snarked says:

            Re: Wow!

            …Casey has been abducted from her parents by a genocidal machine who has nuked most everyone she grew up with. Pretty much impossible to insulate her from some bad things at this point.

            Just to add to my own post, I am fairly certain that Leoban purposely caused the fall that hurt Casey to garner sympathy from Starbuck.

            It would certainly be in-character. I’ll have to watch that ep again this weekend and see if there are any clues.

            snarked

        • Ogre says:

          Re: Wow!

          I am just sorry that the little kid had to see a murder at knifepoint.

          I’m sure in Starbuck’s opinion, it wasn’t murder, but a means to an end: get Leoben close enough, stick him, and make your way to freedom.

          • snarked says:

            Re: Wow!

            I am just sorry that the little kid had to see a murder at knifepoint.

            I’m sure in Starbuck’s opinion, it wasn’t murder, but a means to an end: get Leoben close enough, stick him, and make your way to freedom.

            "We fight them until we can’t." -Starbuck

            snarked

  12. Cunning_Linguist says:

    HD,,,
    All I can say is that I just can’t wait for this show to make it onto HD-DVD and/or BD… I want to watch the BSG atmosphere jump in HD right this minute. :O

Comments are closed.