Game of Thrones – “Mhysa” Discussion June 9, 2013 And Season Three comes to a close. The show has been confirmed for a fourth season. Are you looking forward to it? Share this:Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Mastodon (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)
I still refuse to watch it, because I still don’t think George R. R. Martin knows where the hell he’s going with this thing, and there are zero sympathetic characters in the series.
I can’t say I agree. There’s a lot of balls up in the air but we haven’t seen any of the fumbling that occurred with Lost, I don’t know how the books went but so far it’s been well thought out and I think he has a good idea of where it goes to the end.
As for sympathetic characters, I find all the remaining Starks sympathetic, Tyrion Lannister, Beanne, Jamie a bit, and even Theon, despite being a massive douche, it’s hard not to feel sympathy for his situation.
Agreed. This is a darker and, frankly, more realistic portrayal of a world. Good guys don’t get the girl and ride off into the sunset. They get their throats slit (here literally, in real life metaphorically). What’s far more interesting is the road to something like redemption. We’ve learned that Jaime isn’t a complete tool. The act that earned him the name “Kingslayer” actually saved thousands of lives. And Tyrion is a product of a pretty f-ed up upbringing.
And Theon, while a complete ass, is moderately sympathetic since he’s enduring a pretty harsh penance for his actions. I’m really interested in what happens to him in Book Six.
The reason I didn’t feel sympathy for any of them wasn’t because they’re “bad” or “evil” or not perfect. It’s because every SINGLE one of them is a complete and total IDIOT and they deserve everything they get because they bring it on themselves.
For example, Ned Stark. His kid actually TELLS HIM “Hey dad, I heard two guys plotting to kill you!” and all he can say is “You were in a part of the castle you’re not supposed to be in!” He then gets the chance to head off what’s her name, Sarah Connor, and take over, but noooooo he just SITS THERE. Then he gets killed. Boo friggin hoo.
And Tyrion? Oh for goodness sake. His family has always treated him like a piece of crap, and he HATES them, but he has to be loyal to them. For no apparent reason.
And what’s her name, Ned’s wife. Everything’s going ok, then she has to go “arrest” Tyrion. Again, all she had were suspicions that NOBODY believed. That DIRECTLY lead to a whole lot of bad crap happening.
And those are just exampled from the first book/season.
No sympathy for any of them. I keep saying “Song of Ice and Fire” should be called “Bad Things Happening To Idiots Because They Deserve It”.
Now I’m NOT saying that it’s not good drama. It’s fantastic drama. I just hate all the characters and can’t care at all about what happens to them.
I feel Ned Stark is kind of a transition from traditional fantasy to the GoT universe. In traditional fantasy your hero wins by having a strict unbending code of honour, in the GoT universe it gets you killed. He wasn’t ignorant of the threats and he was doing his own manoeuvring, but he his options were to kill the children or to usurp a throne he really didn’t want.
Tyrion is loyal to his family because they’re his family, that’s how people are. Besides, he’s also a dwarf in a society who’s happy to just kill them at birth. Without the wealth and political influence his family provides he’s probably a beggar.
As for Ned’s wife a mother confronted with someone they think has crippled her son and now is trying to kill him is bound to act rashly. I do agree it was a dumb move (though maybe it did deter further assassination attempts), but people do make extreme choices in real life.
I think that’s one of the main features of the series, being noble, brave, taking a chance, standing up for yourself, in a normal show that’s how you win, in GoT it can get you killed.
I have to disagree with a lot of what you said out there. You’re rationalising these peoples’ completely irrational behaviour.
I know flawed characters are all the rage now, and that’s fine, I’m all for that. Nor am I above rooting for the Bad Guy. We got to the point where we just don’t believe Perfect anymore – we just can’t see them as real people. Flaws help us relate to the characters. It’s all good.
But the characters on GoT go way too far the other way. When I say I can’t sympathise with them, I mean I cannot believe ANY of them are real people. I cannot relate to them AT ALL.
You’re right about Tyrion probably owing SOMEthing to his family, but there’s a limit to that. Also… why did they NOT kill him at birth? That in itself makes zero sense in this world. That whole character even EXISTING makes no sense.
You say Catelyn (and don’t get me on the side-rant of GRRM’s naming convention) was acting understandably rash. No, she wasn’t. She was acting irrationally stupid. She’s lived in this world, too, she knows what the dangers are, and what she did DIRECTLY endangered her ENTIRE family. We KNOW she knew this. We know she knows how the game is played. And then she managed to somehow not know her sister is insane? Please.
And Ned Stark is not really a Fantasy Good Guy stuck in the GoT world. First of all, the character grew up in that world. He’d have been killed AGES ago if he was /that/ good. Second, his morality is as grey as anyone else’s in the story. “Hey when I say someone should be executed, I do it myself.” You’re a regular paragon of Men there, Ned…
I get what you’re saying, but I still don’t agree.
With Tyrion it’s not about owing something to his family, it’s the fact that he literally has no other option. He can’t command power and respect on his own, so it’s either live as a noble serving the family or go join the circus. As for not killing him at birth, maybe Tywin just didn’t want to kill his newborn son after losing his wife? (especially as he might not get anymore sons of appropriate bloodlines).
The insane sister is one of the places where GRRM is taking fantasy liberties. But with both Ned and Catelyn it’s important to remember that we entered the story when the game changed. It’s been a couple decades since the last civil war and people get used to playing by the rules and not realizing the circumstances change. Catelyn caused a small conflict by taking Tyrion (but she might have figured it was worth it to get justice for her son), she didn’t expect the King to suddenly die and a full scale civil war to erupt. I agree it was irrationally stupid, but I don’t think it’s unrealistically so.
As for Ned, no one wanted to execute the deserter, but it was demanded by the Black Watch oath (and as we see a well disciplined Black Watch is critically important to the realm). Ned had to order a very distasteful task that no one wanted to perform, so he did it himself, that was noble. As for him being too good/noble to survive, he’s been up at Winterfell the whole time except for the first civil war when he marched on the capital. He never had to deal with court politics so the sense of honour that worked very well on the battlefield or in Winterfell was something that got him killed in King’s Landing.
I think we’re going to have to go with agreeing to disagree on this one (:
But endless arguments going in circles are a hallmark of the internet! (recognizing and bailing this early makes you a rare breed indeed)
I found this week’s episode to be kinda boring, tbh. Feels like all the big stuff happened last week, and this week was “book keeping” for next season.
Weddings are exhausting. Everyone needs to take a breather once they’re over.