52 replies on ““Stargate: Atlantis” Discussion”

  1. cmhbytehead says:

    Worth it? I say yes.
    The wife and I watched it last night, and we both enjoyed it very much. My wife was impressed by a lot of the effects.

    I was impressed by the humor that was injected. A galaxy far, far away? I was howling. You’ll have to excuse him, he’s Canadiam. Another good laugh.

    I did think that Daniel should have been showed arguing more to be part of the team, if only incidently.

    I enjoyed it pretty much as SG-1.

    • diablo-d3 says:

      Re: Worth it? I say yes.
      The turkey sandwitch bit gave me a chuckle, too. About
      that Starwars reference, it hasn’t been the first one;
      SG-1 has had about half a dozen so far.

      • TwistyHat says:

        Re: Worth it? I say yes.

        The turkey sandwitch bit gave me a chuckle, too. About
        that Starwars reference, it hasn’t been the first one;
        SG-1 has had about half a dozen so far.

        Robert Cooper is a wild Starwars freak :)

  2. Captain_Avatar says:

    Promising…
    Seems to look good so far. The characters seem fresh and fairly convincing. My favorite will be the whiny Scottsman :) . Only thing I can think needs to be improved is the Wraith. Talk about a hackneyed villian if there ever was. Where the Goa’uld (sp?) were fairly unique the Wraith seem like warmed over vampire stew with a pinch of Tolkien’s “Wring Wraith” thrown in.

    • Daemonik says:

      Re: Promising…

      Seems to look good so far. The characters seem fresh and fairly convincing. My favorite will be the whiny Scottsman :)

      You know at some point he’s going to have to say “She just don’ have the powa, cap’n!!” ;)

      Myself, I liked the new digital gates, they seemed pretty spiffy. The genetic limitation on the use of Ancient technology was a nice twist as well.

      It was also good to know that if I ever find myself in a far off galaxy running a hologram left by a race that’s been dead for 10 million years that they will speak perfect English. So will their sleeping enemies and the natives of every planet. Now if only I could order a burger without having to speak Spanish or Hindu…….

      • diablo-d3 says:

        Re: Promising…

        Myself, I liked the new digital gates, they seemed pretty
        spiffy. The genetic limitation on the use of Ancient
        technology was a nice twist as well.

        I’m not such of a fan of the new gate. I miss the ten
        million dollar movie prop the SGC has. Why didn’t they
        just use that one over? Too much of a hassle to move
        between sets?

        It was also good to know that if I ever find myself in a
        far off galaxy running a hologram left by a race that’s
        been dead for 10 million years that they will speak
        perfect English. So will their sleeping enemies and the
        natives of every planet. Now if only I could order a
        burger without having to speak Spanish or Hindu…….

        Yeah, I mentioned that in another comment. I think
        sometimes they forget we know they don’t know how to speak
        Ancient. Or Latin derivatives. Or Old English derivatives.
        Or Jack-speak.

      • valen1260 says:

        Re: Promising…

        It was also good to know that if I ever find myself in a far off galaxy running a hologram left by a race that’s been dead for 10 million years that they will speak perfect English. So will their sleeping enemies and the natives of every planet. Now if only I could order a burger without having to speak Spanish or Hindu…….

        At least it made some sense in SG-1, since most of the civilizations they encountered were all transplanted humans. But now, if I heard correctly, they’re saying we’re all transplated Ancients (much like TNG’s “The Chase”). But none of us speak Ancient. It’s like the modern Romance speakers not being able to understand Latin.

        (As a side note, has anyone noticed that all the aliens on Enterprise now speak English, too?)

        • y42 says:

          Re: Promising…

          they will speak perfect English. So will their sleeping enemies and the natives
          of every planet.

          At least it made some sense in SG-1, since most of the
          civilizations they encountered were all transplanted humans.

          Er, no, it doesn’t.
          Je ne vois vraiment pas pourquoi des extra-terrestres coupés des cultures
          terriennes depuis des centaines ou des milliers d’années auraient dévellopés
          une langue ne serait-ce que vaguement semblable à l’anglais. Ce n’est qu’un
          truc utilisé pour simplifier l’émission, puisque les histoires seraient
          affreusement endormantes et répétitives si elles devaient toutes passer par
          l’apprentissage du language à chaque nouvelle rencontre.

          Catch my drift?
          Most of the people on earth don’t speak english, despite being exposed to it.
          Why would aliens speak it, or anyting like it? Because the show would be
          extremly boring if every episode spent the first half hour on learning new
          languages. Its just one of those things you have to ignore…all alien cultures
          speak the language of the target audience of the show, not english per se,
          just the language the show is broadcasted in. When the show is dubbed in
          another language, all aliens speak that language as well.
          ST had the alien technology of universal translators so they wouldn’t have to
          deal with that. Aliens don’t speak our language, they speak their language
          and
          the translator makes us understand it as our own. Nifty.

          • TwistyHat says:

            Re: Promising…

            Why would aliens speak it, or anyting like it? Because the show would be extremly boring if every episode spent the first half hour on learning new languages.

            That’s a notion that needs to be slapped down when ever it rears its ugly head: Its crap only the most incompetent would write an episode that way. It could be done right, if they could be bothered to try (which the can’t apparently)

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: Promising…
      I was reminded of the villains from Titan A.E., but that was more because of ship design.

  3. Boglin says:

    ‘jumpers
    The biggest complaint I heard about the show was that “Puddle Jumper” was a stupid name for the ships and that “Gateship” would have been a better choice. Personally, if they just keep abreviating the name to “Jumper”, I don’t really have a problem with it, but I was curious what other people thought.

    • peteyg says:

      Re: ‘jumpers

      The biggest complaint I heard about the show was that “Puddle Jumper” was a stupid name for the ships and that “Gateship” would have been a better choice. Personally, if they just keep abreviating the name to “Jumper”, I don’t really have a problem with it, but I was curious what other people thought.

      Naw, Puddle Jumper is the cool name. The fact that there was a debate over it was funny.

      “It’s a LifeSense Detector!”
      “We can name things later.”

      Good stuff.

      • nkuzmik says:

        Re: ‘jumpers

        The biggest complaint I heard about the show was that “Puddle Jumper” was a stupid name for the ships and that “Gateship” would have been a better choice. Personally, if they just keep abreviating the name to “Jumper”, I don’t really have a problem with it, but I was curious what other people thought.

        Naw, Puddle Jumper is the cool name. The fact that there was a debate over it was funny.

        “It’s a LifeSense Detector!”
        “We can name things later.”

        Good stuff.

        I seem to recal reading some where that the wormhole is refered to as the “puddle” by the cast and crew. So calling the new ships “puddle jumpers” is an inside joke as well as an allusion to the size of the vehicle.

    • hitch says:

      Re: ‘jumpers

      The biggest complaint I heard about the show was that “Puddle Jumper” was a stupid name for the ships and that “Gateship” would have been a better choice. Personally, if they just keep abreviating the name to “Jumper”, I don’t really have a problem with it, but I was curious what other people thought.

      this is a “problem” in the sense that WE are used to the gate being called “the gate”. when people are on the set or dealing with the “effect” of the gate, they call it “the puddle” or “A puddle”. I’ve been noticing this watching all the commentaries on the DVDs. everyone calls it “the puddle”. it’s disconcerting, and I don’t like it, but there it is.

  4. peteyg says:

    Not bad
    I was (and still am) a bit skeptical about the show. But I think Atlantis did not suck nearly as much as it could have. It did a lot of fun stuff. It had some quality SG-1 style humor, had some significant sci-fi ‘wow’ factor, and had some real tension. The special effects and set design were outstanding.

    The Wraith. Hmmm…. not really sure what to think yet. It depends on how subsequent episodes go. I would say that they’re kind of cheesy, but then again the Goa’uld are pretty cheesy too. If anything I would say that they aren’t cheesy ENOUGH (they don’t make the classic bad-guy grandiose speeches while the good guys are held prisoner, which made SG-1 fun).

    I am looking forward to future episodes… but the Stargates look pretty fucking lame next week.

    SG-1: “yet another alien entity comes back through the gate and takes over the SG-1 teams’ minds… AGAIN!”
    Atlantis: “yet another alien entity lies in wait and terrorizes the home base until we find a way to trick it into leaving… AGAIN!!”

    • diablo-d3 says:

      Re: Not bad

      SG-1: “yet another alien entity comes back through the
      gate and takes over the SG-1 teams’ minds… AGAIN!”

      Atlantis: “yet another alien entity lies in wait and
      terrorizes the home base until we find a way to trick it
      into leaving… AGAIN!!”

      Am I the only one that noticed that its the same alien
      vision effect for both?

  5. webshowpro says:

    Sorta reminds me of Riker
    After seeing the start of the series I sense a pattern much like the pattern on TNG. It sorta reminds me of how on TNG is seems like every time Riker gets control of the Enterprise the ship is nearly destroyed.

    For Stargate everytime humans go through the Stargate in a new / unexplored place within five minutes we meet the Galaxies most powerful badguy and piss them off.

    Maybe the next spin off we can follow another rogue NDI group around that is stealing technologies.

    It just seems like they could have had a few pretty exciting adventures, without having to meet public enemy number one off the bat. I think it would have been much cooler if the wraith where more mysterious. After all the ancients where very mysterious for most of SG1’s first seasons. It seems like the race that kicked their arse should hold a little more intrigue.

    After all the ancient where in the Pegasus galaxy for generations before they stumbled upon the wraith and “woke them up”.

    For the record I did not like “Puddle Jumper” at first, but if you think of the stargate as a giant “puddle” and the fact that you kind of “jump” through it to a distant place, it kind of makes sense. The main part was the debate was pretty funny.

    The language issue is (and always has been annoying), but “willing suspension of disbelief” on the language issue has always been a hallmark of scfi. Its simply not feasible to have a mass-market long running series that has an alien of the week and each speaking a differnet language. We simply have to ignore that one.

    Oh well, the bottom line is I enjoyed watching the show and will continue to watch it.

    • diablo-d3 says:

      Re: Sorta reminds me of Riker
      Heh, the only language barrier glitch I had a problem with
      was the hologram of the Ancient talking, the rest were
      within reason.

      • suidae says:

        Re: Sorta reminds me of Riker

        Heh, the only language barrier glitch I had a problem with
        was the hologram of the Ancient talking, the rest were
        within reason.

        Considering that the Ancients have the technological capacity to download knowledge directly into O’Neils brain, and much of their technology works by reading one’s intentions, I don’t think its much of a stretch that it presented the hologram in the language of the viewer.

        What bother me the most is that the Puddle Jumper, when returning from the Wraith’s planet, broadcast their home gate address so that the Wraith would know which planet they should raid. I don’t suppose they had much of an option though, with Wraith ships on their tail and no idea if the new gates maintain a list of previously used addresses.

        I wonder if all the new gates have a forcefield option? I hope they eventually do an episode that reveals a couple of new features built into the gate hardware and software.

    • TwistyHat says:

      Re: Sorta reminds me of Riker

      Its simply not feasible to have a mass-market long running series that has an alien of the week and each speaking a differnet language.

      Since nobody has tried, we don’t know that.

    • Cymor says:

      Re: Sorta reminds me of Riker
      I thought they explained this as the gate tweaking their minds so that they spoke and could understand whatever language was being spoken on the other end.

  6. valen1260 says:

    a question of chevrons

    I didn’t understand this when it was first introduced on SG-1, and now it seems an even bigger deal. All the addresses they originally dialed contained 7 symbols, always ending in the symbol of origin. Problem 1: This limits the number of gate worlds to the number of symbols, but that point seems a losing battle.

    Secondly, there are seemingly only 7 chevons on the SGC (old skewl) stargate. So this poses one of two questions: how do they lock in 8+ symbols with 7 chevrons, or, if there are more chevrons under the ramp (I counted nine on the one orbiting the Wraith planet. I just happened to pay attention this time. Reference of other space-borne/free-floating gates would be helpful.), why didn’t the thought ever occur to them that they might serve a purpose? I understand the eight-symbol address are “long-distance”, but if I had an ancient, alien device with 9 locks and 7 keys, I’d sure be looking for two more keys.

    Further confusing the matter, I counted 11 activation sounds when the Atlantis gate was dialed in to from the puddle jumper.

    So, if you have finite chevrons, whether it’s 7,8,9,10, or 11, that leaves you with finite permutations. Why then, is it such a big deal to discover new addresses (“The Fifth Race”) or trade for them (“2001”).

    Is this just the writers way of saying “We painted ourselves into a corner, so now we’re changing the rules.”? I can suspend disbelief with the best of them (language, Carter or Daniel always knowing the answer, etc.), but ignoring such basic mathematics is a bit insulting.

    • Boglin says:

      Re: a question of chevrons
      Here’s the way I interpreted it. It doesn’t seem like the Chevrons actually ‘lock’ into place. The little triangle piece comes down, but it doesn’t look like it actually pulls the symbol out of position. Thus, it’s just reading a number off of the wheel. Therefore, since it’s not a physical state change, you could keep dialing symbols indefinitely. Somewhat like a telephone; the phone numbers are seven digits, but there’s nothing to stop you from pressing buttons after that. Also, if you put in the right starting code, you can use ten digit numbers, as opposed to one digit numbers.

      As for discovering new addresses, I see it somewhat like spam. Sure, the spammers could just go down the list

      However, it’s much more time efficient for them to buy lists of valid addresses from other spammers. After all, when they were trying to find the planet for the rescue mission, they dialed in 720 gate addresses, but only one was valid. Furthermore, in this instance they knew that one of the addresses had to be valid; they usually don’t get this kind of assurance.

      (Oh, and for the record, I recognize that comparing the Goa’uld to spammers is a bit of a stretch. After all, it’s not like they’re arrogant parasites abusing a network, which they didn’t build, in order to scam the human race with false promises.)

      • valen1260 says:

        Re: a question of chevrons

        Here’s the way I interpreted it. It doesn’t seem like the Chevrons actually ‘lock’ into place.

        Just to make sure we’re on the same page: The inner wheel doesn’t lock, and the symbol is not removed from the wheel (so, theoretically, you could dial AAAAAAA), but the chevron itself locks into one symbol and cannot accept another. So, even if you dialed only A’s, you could only dial 7-9 of them.

        Also, if you put in the right starting code, you can use ten digit numbers, as opposed to one digit numbers.

        This actually raises another question. There doesn’t seem to be a “long distance” symbol. They use eight, but the gate doesn’t know there are eight coming until the eighth symbol arrives. In phones, you dial the country code (1 in the US) to signify a long-distance code. Furthermore, the old skewl area codes always had, I think, 0 or 1 as the middle digit. So, unless the Earth gate is expecting the Earth symbol as the last symbol, how does it not know that the seventh of eight symbols isn’t its originating symbol?

        • SolaraX says:

          Re: a question of chevrons

          Here’s the way I interpreted it. It doesn’t seem like the Chevrons actually ‘lock’ into place.

          Just to make sure we’re on the same page: The inner wheel doesn’t lock, and the symbol is not removed from the wheel (so, theoretically, you could dial AAAAAAA), but the chevron itself locks into one symbol and cannot accept another. So, even if you dialed only A’s, you could only dial 7-9 of them.

          Also, if you put in the right starting code, you can use ten digit numbers, as opposed to one digit numbers.

          This actually raises another question. There doesn’t seem to be a “long distance” symbol. They use eight, but the gate doesn’t know there are eight coming until the eighth symbol arrives. In phones, you dial the country code (1 in the US) to signify a long-distance code. Furthermore, the old skewl area codes always had, I think, 0 or 1 as the middle digit. So, unless the Earth gate is expecting the Earth symbol as the last symbol, how does it not know that the seventh of eight symbols isn’t its originating symbol?

          To dial within our galaxy you use 1-6 then the Origin.

          To dial to another galaxy you use Galaxy, 1-6, then the Origin (maybe?)

          And maybe it goes 9th Galaxy, 1-6, then the origin.

          Then it would know not to create the wormhole until the origin has been input.

          -SX

    • Daemonik says:

      Re: a question of chevrons
      Okay, some of the answers to this can be found here.

      All the addresses they originally dialed contained 7 symbols, always ending in the symbol of origin. Problem 1: This limits the number of gate worlds to the number of symbols, but that point seems a losing battle.

      There are 39 symbols on a gate, with 7 symbols needed to lock in an address within this galaxy, one being the point of origin and the other 6 being the +X +Y +Z -X -Y -Z spatial coordinates. Using this formula 39!/(39-7)! , that gives you 77519922480 or so possible unique combinations to play with. This does not take into account the DHD’s with different 39 symbol sets from Earth’s gate which must exist as if they all used the same symbol set there could only be 39 different points of origin.

      Secondly, there are seemingly only 7 chevons on the SGC (old skewl) stargate. So this poses one of two questions: how do they lock in 8+ symbols with 7 chevrons, or, if there are more chevrons under the ramp (I counted nine on the one orbiting the Wraith planet. I just happened to pay attention this time. Reference of other space-borne/free-floating gates would be helpful.), why didn’t the thought ever occur to them that they might serve a purpose? I understand the eight-symbol address are “long-distance”, but if I had an ancient, alien device with 9 locks and 7 keys, I’d sure be looking for two more keys.

      Further confusing the matter, I counted 11 activation sounds when the Atlantis gate was dialed in to from the puddle jumper.

      So, if you have finite chevrons, whether it’s 7,8,9,10, or 11, that leaves you with finite permutations. Why then, is it such a big deal to discover new addresses (“The Fifth Race”) or trade for them (“2001”).

      There are 9 chevrons on the Stargate. As we learned from “The Fifth Race” (which you pointed out, btw) use of the 8th chevron requires a power boost that is out of reach of current human technology. This is why experimentation with the 8th and 9th chevrons has not been explored. Also, a 9 chevron address scheme would create 39!/(39 – 9)! = 7.68997631 × 10 to the 13th possible unique combinations.

      As for discovering new addresses, the original cartouche, the panels on Abidos and the information uploaded into SGC’s computers by ONeil while under Ancient influence have to be corrected for thousands of years of stellar drift before a gate can be locked onto them. As well, gates get burried, or oceans swallow them or they’re on planets with no atmosphere or corrosive toxins, etc. The sheer number of possible gate addresses combined with the power requirements for opening the gate and the expense of remote equipment to test new sites prior to sending humans combined with the scheduling needs of keeping the gates open for current offworld mission use would limit how many addresses the SGC could test in a given time.

      • valen1260 says:

        Re: a question of chevrons
        Thanks for the link.

        There are 39 symbols on a gate, with 7 symbols needed to lock in an address within this galaxy, one being the point of origin and the other 6 being the +X +Y +Z -X -Y -Z spatial coordinates.

        Ah, yes. Coordinates. I seem to remember that now. They smell of bullsh*t, but that’s not your fault. (Coordinates, by their nature, would only need three symbols. You don’t need +X and -X. And, if the two sets are to be the two endpoints of the wormhole, then why do you need a 7th, origination, symbol?)

        Using this formula 39!/(39-7)! , that gives you 77519922480 or so possible unique combinations to play with. This does not take into account the DHD’s with different 39 symbol sets from Earth’s gate which must exist as if they all used the same symbol set there could only be 39 different points of origin.

        Where does it say they use different symbol sets? While it certainly solves my Problem 1, it seems a bit odd to have a DHD with 1-39 in one place and A-AM in another. That would mean not all gates could connect to all gates (even ignoring “long-distance calls”). So, to really explore the gate network, the SGC would have to calculate the unique subnetworks and send teams to the convergence gates to secure them for multiple-gate hops. If Problem 1 is explained away by different symbol groups, I propose this as a new Problem 1.

        Props for actually doing the math, which I won’t dare question. (I haven’t seen that formula since college.) I’m probably putting too much into this, but at some level, the science in science-fiction has to be rooted.

        • suidae says:

          Re: a question of chevrons

          Thanks for the link.

          There are 39 symbols on a gate, with 7 symbols needed to lock in an address within this galaxy, one being the point of origin and the other 6 being the +X +Y +Z -X -Y -Z spatial coordinates.

          Ah, yes. Coordinates. I seem to remember that now. They smell of bullsh*t, but that’s not your fault.

          Keep in mind that that was Carter(Daniel?) explaining how the gate addresses another gate to a bunch of nontechnical people. We don’t know how accurate it is, or if it is a gross simplification of how the addressing really works.

          (Coordinates, by their nature, would only need three symbols.

          Depends on the addressing scheme. We don’t know that the coordinates are offsets on universal axis system. If each symbol represents one landmark (gate, distant galaxy, whatever), then any two symbols define an axis. Two axis can define a point, although when using natural landmarks, it would be hard to get an exact point. A third could be used to refine the accuracy.

          why do you need a 7th, origination, symbol?)

          I’m not sure why a gate needs to be told its current location. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that gates are (semi)portable and so the gate network needs to be kept updated as to where the gates are. We know the gates are networked, so perhaps its part of an interstellar RIP protocol.

          Using this formula 39!/(39-7)! , that gives you 77519922480 or so possible unique combinations to play with. This does not take into account the DHD’s with different 39 symbol sets from Earth’s gate which must exist as if they all used the same symbol set there could only be 39 different points of origin.

          Where does it say they use different symbol sets?

          As the parent post explained, at least one symbol on the DHD must vary from gate to gate, or you are stuck with only 39 possible origin points (presuming 39 is the correct number of keys on the DHD).

          While it certainly solves my Problem 1, it seems a bit odd to have a DHD with 1-39 in one place and A-AM in another. That would mean not all gates could connect to all gates

          Presumably most of they symbols are identical, with only the point of origin symbol changing (although if that were the case the whole Abidose(sp?) thing with needing the point of orgin would not have happened, presuming Daniel had memorized all the symbols and their locations on the DHD).

          However, if the coordinate system is something like what I suggested above, then there could be many ways to address the same gates (perhaps a reason the SGC refers to planets with a pnx-xxx ID instead of something linked to the gate address?). In this case, even if different gates had different symbols, it would still be possible to reach any gate. Recall that wormholes will ‘snap’ to any active (and sometimes inactive) gate in the vicinity, so the coordinates don’t have to be perfect.

          Of course if you gated to a location with different symbols, you’d be pretty well screwed when you tried to gate back to your own world, so I expect that if DHDs do not always have the same keys, then only very few change, and they are used in such a way that it causes no conflicts.

          • valen1260 says:

            Re: a question of chevrons

            Depends on the addressing scheme. We don’t know that the coordinates are offsets on universal axis system. If each symbol represents one landmark (gate, distant galaxy, whatever), then any two symbols define an axis. Two axis can define a point, although when using natural landmarks, it would be hard to get an exact point. A third could be used to refine the accuracy.

            Oh, here’s an interesting thought, though one not seemingly rooted in anything the show has stated. What if the addresses are hierarchical? This galaxy, this star, this planet, then XYZ coordinates.

          • Khryslyn says:

            Re: a question of chevrons

            Presumably most of they symbols are identical, with only the point of origin symbol changing (although if that were the case the whole Abidose(sp?) thing with needing the point of orgin would not have happened, presuming Daniel had memorized all the symbols and their locations on the DHD)

            First off… I am far from an authority on astronomy etc however this is how I have rationlized this problem.

            There is no way that the symbols on all the gates are the same regardless of which world you are on. For example if you look at the night sky in one location on one hemisphere of Earth and then at the exact same time look at it again from an opposite site on the other hemisphere you do not see the same thing.

            I believe it was explained (although briefly in one of the earlier eps of SG1 or even perhaps in the movie) that the symbols are representative of the constellations in the sky therefore they could not be the same everywhere. The further away from Eath you travel the more different the constellations would be. If you travelled far enough away you wouldn’t see any of the same constellations at all. SO based on this theory you can’t just automatically dial from one planet to any other that you wish. You would need to make several jumps (mcuh like transfers on buses/planes etc) to get to where you wish to go.

            Don’t know if anyone agrees or if it makes sense to anyone else but that’s how I have understood it.

          • Khryslyn says:

            Re: a question of chevrons

            Presumably most of they symbols are identical, with only the point of origin symbol changing (although if that were the case the whole Abidose(sp?) thing with needing the point of orgin would not have happened, presuming Daniel had memorized all the symbols and their locations on the DHD)
            —————————————————–

            First off… I am far from an authority on astronomy etc however this is how I have rationlized this problem.

            There is no way that the symbols on all the gates are the same regardless of which world you are on. For example if you look at the night sky in one location on one hemisphere of Earth and then at the exact same time look at it again from an opposite site on the other hemisphere you do not see the same thing.

            I believe it was explained (although briefly in one of the earlier eps of SG1 or even perhaps in the movie) that the symbols are representative of the constellations in the sky therefore they could not be the same everywhere. The further away from Eath you travel the more different the constellations would be. If you travelled far enough away you wouldn’t see any of the same constellations at all. SO based on this theory you can’t just automatically dial from one planet to any other that you wish. You would need to make several jumps (mcuh like transfers on buses/planes etc) to get to where you wish to go.

            Don’t know if anyone agrees or if it makes sense to anyone else but that’s how I have understood it.

    • TwistyHat says:

      Re: a question of chevrons
      Yes the SGC stargate also has nine chevrons.

    • Khryslyn says:

      Re: a question of chevrons

      I didn’t understand this when it was first introduced on SG-1, and now it seems an even bigger deal. All the addresses they originally dialed contained 7 symbols, always ending in the symbol of origin. Problem 1: This limits the number of gate worlds to the number of symbols, but that point seems a losing battle.

      Secondly, there are seemingly only 7 chevons on the SGC (old skewl) stargate. So this poses one of two questions: how do they lock in 8+ symbols with 7 chevrons, or, if there are more chevrons under the ramp (I counted nine on the one orbiting the Wraith planet. I just happened to pay attention this time. Reference of other space-borne/free-floating gates would be helpful.), why didn’t the thought ever occur to them that they might serve a purpose? I understand the eight-symbol address are “long-distance”, but if I had an ancient, alien device with 9 locks and 7 keys, I’d sure be looking for two more keys.

      Further confusing the matter, I counted 11 activation sounds when the Atlantis gate was dialed in to from the puddle jumper.

      So, if you have finite chevrons, whether it’s 7,8,9,10, or 11, that leaves you with finite permutations. Why then, is it such a big deal to discover new addresses (“The Fifth Race”) or trade for them (“2001”).

      Is this just the writers way of saying “We painted ourselves into a corner, so now we’re changing the rules.”? I can suspend disbelief with the best of them (language, Carter or Daniel always knowing the answer, etc.), but ignoring such basic mathematics is a bit insulting.

      To the best of my understanding the Ancients fled Atlantis for fear of this lives. It would make sense that they would lead the next generations to believe that the Stargate could only use 7 chevrons in hopes of keeping future travellers away from the worst danger that they had encountered and leading them back to this universe to wreak the same distruction here. It also makes sense in the fact that there are many more galaxies out there and therefore the 8th symbol would be much the same as an “area code” that we would use while placing a phone call. In order to reach different provinces/states it is necessary to add additional digits to connect to the number we want. It would also make sense that there are quite possibly more chervon options to be shown in the future, for example we have country codes as well as area codes that we need to use when making international calls.

  7. valen1260 says:

    familiar face

    Was the Ancient in the “several million years ago” teaser the same one they found frozen at the bottom of Antarctica (“Frozen”)?

    • bab5freak says:

      Re: familiar face

      Was the Ancient in the “several million years ago” teaser the same one they found frozen at the bottom of Antarctica (“Frozen”)?

      I don’t know for sure, but I just recently saw “Frozen”, and I definitely thought it was the same actress.

  8. IronHelix says:

    Not bad…
    On the whole I found it enteraining… few quipes-

    1. the albino long white hair vampire like creature has been done before. At least Goa’uld are a unique concept… this is just a generic monster. And the only motivation is to feed? Come on, if the concept of billions of humans is amazing, and they’re that advanced, they should be able to figure out that if they let humans breed more they’ll get more food…

    2. If humans can blow the ‘screamership’ out of the sky with a bazooka, which is not a very sophisticated weapon, how come the Ancients couldn’t do the same thing with their technology?

    3. zero-point power depleted? Perhaps I don’t understand the concept of zero-point correctly, but as I understood it that’s not even possible. Also, since ZPM’s are nice and small, why not keep a few (hundred) extra around in case ya need them? Just like AA batteries, you can never have enough. Surely whoever built the city could have figured that out.

    4. new gate, design isn’t bad but the symbols look like LED lights. The first time i saw it ‘spin’ around I expected it to play music and start dispensing quarters or arcade tickets or something.

    5. Why have Earth galaxy gates? If the Ancients lived in the Pegasus galaxy, and only went to earth to die, why do the gates in Earth’s galaxy exist? Or did i miss something?

    6. The # of chevrons thing is definately a continuity error. In the movie there were only 7 as I recall (could be wrong), and when Jack first contacted the Asgard after getting his little download, they made some comment like ‘so that’s what the 8th chevron is for!’

    I’m pretty optomistic though, most of my issues are minor, and I think the characters have a decent chance of working.

    • ThatFreakBob says:

      Re: Not bad…

      5. Why have Earth galaxy gates? If the Ancients lived in the Pegasus galaxy, and only went to earth to die, why do the gates in Earth’s galaxy exist? Or did i miss something?

      The Ancients got their start in our galaxy. However, there was a plague that started wiping them out so the healthy ones took off for Pegasus. Then the Wraith started wiping them out so they came back here where they spent the rest of their days.

    • Daemonik says:

      Re: Not bad…

      1. the albino long white hair vampire like creature has been done before. At least Goa’uld are a unique concept… this is just a generic monster. And the only motivation is to feed? Come on, if the concept of billions of humans is amazing, and they’re that advanced, they should be able to figure out that if they let humans breed more they’ll get more food…

      Alien parasites using humans as hosts are not unique, I direct you to “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” for one, also the idea of aliens pretending to be gods has been a theory for a while too. As for the Wraith letting the human food stocks breed, you have a situation where unrestrained breeding results in a less managable herd as well as the possibility of armed rebellion and the resources that it would take to put down.

      2. If humans can blow the ‘screamership’ out of the sky with a bazooka, which is not a very sophisticated weapon, how come the Ancients couldn’t do the same thing with their technology?

      I can’t really say much about this one because we don’t have the back history yet regarding how the Wraith beat the Ancients, however, it could be a matter similar to the Asgard vs the Replicators where the Ancients were unable to ‘think outside the box’ and couldn’t overpower the Wraith with the technology they had.

      3. zero-point power depleted? Perhaps I don’t understand the concept of zero-point correctly, but as I understood it that’s not even possible. Also, since ZPM’s are nice and small, why not keep a few (hundred) extra around in case ya need them? Just like AA batteries, you can never have enough. Surely whoever built the city could have figured that out.

      Energy can not be created or destroyed, only converted into other forms. The ZPM might seem like a limitless power supply but there has to be a finite limit. Which leads into why they didn’t stockpile ZPMs, if three were enough to provide the city with power while it was inhabited and were enough to power the shields while the city was in standby mode for 10 million years, maybe the Ancients never felt there was an immediate need to keep lots of them around. After all there should have been plenty of warning before a ZPM failed.

      4. new gate, design isn’t bad but the symbols look like LED lights. The first time i saw it ‘spin’ around I expected it to play music and start dispensing quarters or arcade tickets or something.

      I liked the new gates, myself.

      5. Why have Earth galaxy gates? If the Ancients lived in the Pegasus galaxy, and only went to earth to die, why do the gates in Earth’s galaxy exist? Or did i miss something?

      The Ancients left Earth and our galaxy (after building the gate system here) to escape the plague that was killing them. After the Wraith devastated their colonies in the Pegasus galaxy they returned to Earth to die.

      6. The # of chevrons thing is definately a continuity error. In the movie there were only 7 as I recall (could be wrong), and when Jack first contacted the Asgard after getting his little download, they made some comment like ‘so that’s what the 8th chevron is for!’

      I’m pretty optomistic though, most of my issues are minor, and I think the characters have a decent chance of working.

      There are 9 chevrons on a stargate we just typically only see 7. The power requirements to attempt to use the 8th symbol required a little understood alien energy booster. Without the capability to generate the massive energy requirement they could never have gotten the 8th or 9th symbols to do anything so they never knew why they were there. For that matter they still don’t know what the 9th symbol is for.

      • rune says:

        Re: Not bad…

        For that matter they still don’t know what the 9th symbol is for.

        Area code to select which universe you want to go to?

        Rune

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: Not bad…

          Area code to select which universe you want to go to?

          Ah, like the Quantum Mirror!

      • scharkalvin says:

        Re: Not bad…

        1. the albino long white hair vampire like creature has been done before. At least Goa’uld are a unique concept… this is just a generic monster. And the only motivation is to feed? Come on, if the concept of billions of humans is amazing, and they’re that advanced, they should be able to figure out that if they let humans breed more they’ll get more food…

        Alien parasites using humans as hosts are not unique, I direct you to “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” for one, also the idea of aliens pretending to be gods has been a theory for a while too. As for the Wraith letting the human food stocks breed, you have a situation where unrestrained breeding results in a less managable herd as well as the possibility of armed rebellion and the resources that it would take to put down.

        2. If humans can blow the ‘screamership’ out of the sky with a bazooka, which is not a very sophisticated weapon, how come the Ancients couldn’t do the same thing with their technology?

        I can’t really say much about this one because we don’t have the back history yet regarding how the Wraith beat the Ancients, however, it could be a matter similar to the Asgard vs the Replicators where the Ancients were unable to ‘think outside the box’ and couldn’t overpower the Wraith with the technology they had.

        3. zero-point power depleted? Perhaps I don’t understand the concept of zero-point correctly, but as I understood it that’s not even possible. Also, since ZPM’s are nice and small, why not keep a few (hundred) extra around in case ya need them? Just like AA batteries, you can never have enough. Surely whoever built the city could have figured that out.

        Energy can not be created or destroyed, only converted into other forms. The ZPM might seem like a limitless power supply but there has to be a finite limit. Which leads into why they didn’t stockpile ZPMs, if three were enough to provide the city with power while it was inhabited and were enough to power the shields while the city was in standby mode for 10 million years, maybe the Ancients never felt there was an immediate need to keep lots of them around. After all there should have been plenty of warning before a ZPM failed.

        4. new gate, design isn’t bad but the symbols look like LED lights. The first time i saw it ‘spin’ around I expected it to play music and start dispensing quarters or arcade tickets or something.

        I liked the new gates, myself.

        5. Why have Earth galaxy gates? If the Ancients lived in the Pegasus galaxy, and only went to earth to die, why do the gates in Earth’s galaxy exist? Or did i miss something?

        The Ancients left Earth and our galaxy (after building the gate system here) to escape the plague that was killing them. After the Wraith devastated their colonies in the Pegasus galaxy they returned to Earth to die.

        6. The # of chevrons thing is definately a continuity error. In the movie there were only 7 as I recall (could be wrong), and when Jack first contacted the Asgard after getting his little download, they made some comment like ‘so that’s what the 8th chevron is for!’

        I’m pretty optomistic though, most of my issues are minor, and I think the characters have a decent chance of working.

        There are 9 chevrons on a stargate we just typically only see 7. The power requirements to attempt to use the 8th symbol required a little understood alien energy booster. Without the capability to generate the massive energy requirement they could never have gotten the 8th or 9th symbols to do anything so they never knew why they were there. For that matter they still don’t know what the 9th symbol is for.

        What is a ZPM.
        Well they did hint at it. They mentioned some sort of ‘compressed vacuum’ engergy. There is a theory in cosmology that a ‘compressed vacuum’ is what created the energy for the big bang. (now THATS a power source!)

        On the 9 chevrons. Most startgates we have seen on other planets were set in the ground so that the lower two chevrons were buried (why doesn’t this muck up the movement of the gate’s inner parts?). What order are the chevrons engaged in (the TOP one always seems to be the last one). For that matter how do you identify which way to mount the gate? (which end points up?).

        I think only the gate at Atlantis was the new kind with LED symbols. On the first planet in the pegaus galaxy they visited wasn’t that an old familar DHD?

        • bombadil says:

          Re: Not bad…

          I think only the gate at Atlantis was the new kind with LED symbols.

          Perhaps the Ancients “headquarters” needed a stargate that could be digitally reconfigured to dial new configurations (7, 8, or 9 digits, simulating different “origination codes”, etc)

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: Not bad…

          Most startgates we have seen on other planets were set in the ground so that the lower two chevrons were buried (why doesn’t this muck up the movement of the gate’s inner parts?).

          I ask myself the same thing. That’s why I assumed what you saw (7 chevrons) is what you got.

          I think only the gate at Atlantis was the new kind with LED symbols. On the first planet in the pegaus galaxy they visited wasn’t that an old familar DHD?

          Yes, but I think the one orbitting the Wraith planet (putting the gate in orbit is an awesome anti-invasion technique) was blue, meaning new skewl.

    • babasyzygy says:

      Re: Not bad…

      On the whole I found it enteraining… few quipes-

      1. the albino
      long white hair vampire like creature has been done before. At least Goa’uld
      are a unique concept… this is just a generic monster. And the only
      motivation is to feed? Come on, if the concept of billions of humans is
      amazing, and they’re that advanced, they should be able to figure out that if
      they let humans breed more they’ll get more food…

      Of course, that’s obvious. My bet is that billions of humans are too much of a
      potential threat, so they keep their “herds” down to manageable sizes and cull
      them when they get uppity enough to push their bounds beyond some
      predetermined point. Or uppity enough to kill the “caretaker” Wraiths, that
      would be an elegent solution (and consistent with what we saw).

      2. If humans can blow the ‘screamership’ out of the sky with a bazooka, which
      is not a very sophisticated weapon, how come the Ancients couldn’t do the
      same thing with their technology?

      Heck, who knows what happened there? Maybe they didn’t bother wasting
      power to shields when they were attacking spear-wielding aborigines.

      3. zero-point power depleted? Perhaps I don’t understand the concept of
      zero-point correctly, but as I understood it that’s not even possible.

      So they didn’t run out of the ZPE itself, it’s just that the unobtainium that
      catalyzes the power extraction slowly degrades over time, with the amount of
      energy pulled through it. It’s the unobtainium that was actually running it.

      5. Why have Earth galaxy gates? If the Ancients lived in the Pegasus galaxy,
      and only went to earth to die, why do the gates in Earth’s galaxy exist? Or did
      i miss something?

      You did. The Ancients started in this galaxy and after a long, long time they
      colonized the Pegasus galaxy. They spread out from Atlantis, until they
      encountered the Wraith. They fought for a long time, falling back eventually
      to Atlantis and then to Earth. Why they didn’t get away from Earth, I don’t
      know.

      6. The # of chevrons thing is definately a continuity error. In the movie there
      were only 7 as I recall (could be wrong), and when Jack first contacted the
      Asgard after getting his little download, they made some comment like ‘so
      that’s what the 8th chevron is for!’

      Not a continuity error, an expansion on the continuity. You use an 8th
      symbol to go into the extended calling area (as it were) to where the Asgard
      were, and a 9th symbol will
      take you even further into another “area code.” I wouldn’t look to closely at
      the question, “how does
      the gate know how many symbols you’re dialing” too closely, though.

      • Captain Jerky says:

        What happened to the power generator?
        In the beginning of the episode, we hear them tell O’Neill that they’d need the Zero Point Generator to power the gate for the jump. Does this mean that they:
        1.Took the generator with them to Atlantis, leaving the Earth defenses unpowered.
        2. Used up the generator to get to Atlantis, leaving the Earth defenses unpowered.
        3. That’s why it was a one-way trip, the generator stays at the SGC but somehow wouldn’t help further?
        I realize that with O’Neill’s Ancient knowledge gone, he couldn’t use the weapon anymore, but as we saw in Atlantis, his chopper pilot could use it without reading the directions. It therefore stands to reason that a properly trained person could run the defense network at the outpost.
        Can anyone tell me the status of the outpost’s defenses? Are they giving up on that?
        PS- What’s with the ‘SG-1 gets taken over by aliens” again in the next episode? There’s Bal on the rampage, the System Lords attacking Earth just to find out if the defenses work, Replicators, Asgard in trouble, all kinds of good plotlines. Heck, why not all-out galactic war? Earth can put up a few more examples of the Prometheus, etc.
        For a show that Sci-Fi says has broad appeal because it’s not “too spacy”, they’re getting out there. And Atlantis is basically even further. Oh well, I’m still bitter they cancelled Farscape, too… argh! They claimed that show failed because it wasn’t ‘normal’ enough. Anyway, I’ve adopted Stargate and Atlantis as my Sci-Fi, so I really want to make sure I understand these last few episodes.
        Cheers, all!

        • UltraOne says:

          Re: What happened to the power generator?

          An excellent question. My take is that #2 is the correct answer: they used the generator, which stayed at SGC, and depleted it. It is an open question whether or not the “depleted” ZPG could still power the outpost defense system. After all, the energy needed to make the 8-symbol jump is repeatedly described as enormous, so it is plausible that the ZPG could be left in a state where it could not power another jump to Atlantis, but still could power the defense system.

          The justification for this in the show was that they hoped that Atlantis would yield more ZPGs plus other nifty gizmos. Not sure I would have made that kind of a gamble, especially after finding Sheppard had a natural affinity for the Ancient machinery. They stated that most people needed a fair amount of practice to even get the system to work marginally, so I would say there was a good chance that Sheppard could have improved enough with practice to run the defense system.

          The narative justification for all this is obviously that the writers want the SG:A team cut off in the Pegasus galaxy, and the “return home” goal will provide plenty of motivation for their adventures in upcoming episodes.

          • valen1260 says:

            Re: What happened to the power generator?

            The narative justification for all this is obviously that the writers want the SG:A team cut off in the Pegasus galaxy, and the “return home” goal will provide plenty of motivation for their adventures in upcoming episodes.

            Let’s just hope it doesn’t suck like other shows that have tried that. *cough* Voyager *cough*

      • LordJavac says:

        Re: Not bad…

        6. The # of chevrons thing is definately a continuity error. In the movie there
        were only 7 as I recall (could be wrong), and when Jack first contacted the
        Asgard after getting his little download, they made some comment like ‘so
        that’s what the 8th chevron is for!’

        Not a continuity error, an expansion on the continuity. You use an 8th
        symbol to go into the extended calling area (as it were) to where the Asgard
        were, and a 9th symbol will
        take you even further into another “area code.” I wouldn’t look to closely at
        the question, “how does
        the gate know how many symbols you’re dialing” too closely, though.

        I believe that the normal addresses are really 6 symbols and that Atlantis was
        7 symbols. I think that the “point of origin” is more like an end marker, than
        actually required for the address. That way you can have different length
        addresses and the gate would know when to start dialing, otherwise you
        could get a lock before your were done dialing a “long-distance” address.
        BTW, I really like the notion of each of the symbols having a sound for ready
        pronunciation of gate addresses.

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: Not bad…

          BTW, I really like the notion of each of the symbols having a sound for ready
          pronunciation of gate addresses.

          Oh, yeah. I’d forgotten about that. They should start using those instead of the Pxxx addresses.

          • yodapez18 says:

            Re: Not bad…
            I love how people can accept an alien worm that can somehow be compatible with a human nervous system, and in fact THINKS so much the same taht it can read the hosts mind. The Trill were hard enough to believe, I can’t even figure out where the GIANT bug hides when it burrows into the neck.
            Anyway about the language issue. The ancients were half wiped out by the plague, they escaped to the pegasus galaxy while teh rest ascended. They spread out there, apparently until the time of the greeks or so, then the wraiths beat them up and they stargated back to Earth, and taught the roaans to build roads and whatever. now is it so ahrd to believe that they influenced the developedment of language? I mean hmmmmm how do you think sheppard ended up with ancient DNA, obviosuly the ancients just lived with the humans that were evolving already. maybe they taught them some words. id like to point out taht in Atlantis, YES they spoke english, but they ahd no colloquialisms which would be developed from social context. Tala didnt even know what “ok” meant, she seemed to kind of guess.
            i remember the first couple seasons of Stargate where we ahd tow ait for daniel to translate everything, by the way, hes an anthropologist, so obviously they dont just pretend they magically speak the same language. If that were true teh unaas would speak english. Since english is a rip off of lots of other languages, it makes sense that the summation of those same languages would come out somehwat the same, or at least recognizeable. I mean if youw ant accents and whatever, then that would just get cheesy, at somepoint you avhe to admit that in order to keep the story moving you DO have to lose some accuracy, thats where the fiction ahlf of science fiction coems from.
            The acnients got their butts kicked ebcause “They weren’t ready” I wonder how the asgard would fair against the Wraiths? They were pretty much no helpa gainst the goa’uld so they kind of owe Earth. Sure they did help upgrade teh prometheus, but frankly, the ship hasnt won a battle yet. All its ordinacne, and all the fighters ordinacenwere used up in under half an hour, stupid Asgard, what good are shields if you have to start throwing things out the window?
            I also would like to see an ascended ancient get into the pegasus galaxy and do some damage
            Incidently is anyone else a litle edgy about oblique references to jesus being an ancient? teaching nonviolence? healing touch? ascending?? lets not have the pope boycotting stargate…

    • busterfelix says:

      Re: Not bad…

      On the whole I found it enteraining… few quipes-

      1. the albino long white hair vampire like creature has been done before. At least Goa’uld are a unique concept… this is just a generic monster. And the only motivation is to feed? Come on, if the concept of billions of humans is amazing, and they’re that advanced, they should be able to figure out that if they let humans breed more they’ll get more food…

      2. If humans can blow the ‘screamership’ out of the sky with a bazooka, which is not a very sophisticated weapon, how come the Ancients couldn’t do the same thing with their technology?

      3. zero-point power depleted? Perhaps I don’t understand the concept of zero-point correctly, but as I understood it that’s not even possible. Also, since ZPM’s are nice and small, why not keep a few (hundred) extra around in case ya need them? Just like AA batteries, you can never have enough. Surely whoever built the city could have figured that out.

      4. new gate, design isn’t bad but the symbols look like LED lights. The first time i saw it ‘spin’ around I expected it to play music and start dispensing quarters or arcade tickets or something.

      5. Why have Earth galaxy gates? If the Ancients lived in the Pegasus galaxy, and only went to earth to die, why do the gates in Earth’s galaxy exist? Or did i miss something?

      6. The # of chevrons thing is definately a continuity error. In the movie there were only 7 as I recall (could be wrong), and when Jack first contacted the Asgard after getting his little download, they made some comment like ‘so that’s what the 8th chevron is for!’

      I’m pretty optomistic though, most of my issues are minor, and I think the characters have a decent chance of working.

      I agree with you for the most part. But what do you mean by bullet 6 re: chevrons?

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