Star Wars: Fannish Rambling on Moot Points

Yeah, it’s Lucas’ world, and we just watch it. Still….

Dave has already written a review of Revenge of the Sith, which spurred lively discussion, and even one suggestion that Lucas perhaps shouldn’t write and direct these things. Let’s face it: the visuals are stupendous, and the emotional scenes, generally, stupid.

So…. Just for fun, let’s play Monday Night Quarterback, or How to Unfairly Belabor a Moot Point. Come on! Bureauites’ ideas for Enterprise awhile back were cool. If you were setting up the three prequels (with knowledge of the actual three films, of course), what would you have done?

I’ll go first:

1. Eliminate that stupid, stupid Ep 1, which gave us Baby Anakin who later falls in love with his babysitter, reduces Obi-wan’s account of things from A New Hope to senile confabulations, and features He Who Mussa Not Be Named. Start with the Clone Wars, during which Obi-Wan, already a Jedi Master, meets a young pilot named Anakin Skywalker. Also on board is, (say, a mechanic) Owen Lars, who’s like a brother to Anakin. They come from the same small backwater somewhere that is not Tatooine (Vader never checks up on his home planet in twenty years?), and over the course of the war Lars wonders if he shouldn’t just go back to being a simple farmer somewhere.

2. The big flaw in Sith (apart from Christensen and Portman’s performances, though even exceptional actors would’ve had difficulty doing anything with that dialogue) is the sheer number of things that happen in too short a time. Anakin, life-long Jedi, turns entirely against his order in response to obvious manipulation. The kickass Jedi get wiped out in moments. Palpatine becomes Emperor and suddenly we have the Empire, more or less as we saw it at the beginning of A New Hope. To quote Vader, “Nooooooooooooo!”

I’m thinking, Episode 2 shows us the Rebellion, and Anakin’s gradual movement to the dark side. (Palpatine wouldn’t have to be connected to the Separatists; he could just be taking advantage of things. That’s more true to human history). The film ends with (1) The fight that destroys Skywalker/Vader’s body (great sequence, even if I didn’t buy their proximity to lava) (2) The crowning of the Emperor and the announcement that the Jedi are enemies of the Republic and (3) the birth of Amidala’s children. However, in consideration of those kids growing up now who will watch the six movies in order (or even two friends of mine who like SF but for some reason have never seen a Star Wars film and are finally going to watch them all in order, now that their kids are older), we won’t know the names or even that she had twins. With the Jedi threatened, the decision is made to conceal Skywalker’s offspring. Lars and Organa are both present….

Episode 2 involves the conflict between the Jedi and the Empire and the attendant Civil War, which the Good GuysTM lose. Vader (who soley because I thought his coming out of reconstruction with a cape on was dumb, doesn’t wear a cape yet), leads the extermination of the Jedi, establishing himself as a power with which to be reckoned. Dark film, during which nearly all trace of Anakin disappears and Ebert and Roeper wet their chairs.

3. I dunno, maybe use R2-D2. C3PO served no intelligent purpose in the prequels. I’d have lots of those gonk droids and the bigger-style Artoo units (“This R2 unit has a bad motivator!”) bopping around. Perhaps have R2-D2 meet his fey future companion in at the end of the third film. And didn’t the early novelizations say that the rebels were using refurbished antique ships in the original film? Why don’t we see lots of X- and Y-Wing fighters buzzing about during the last days of the Republic?

4. Yeah, I’ve rambled on about this before but, Separatist Movements aside, Ep 1 shows a chaotic, multi-species Republic and the classic trilogy shows an entirely human Empire. Why not, from the start, have a human Republic, no doubt with affiliations and treaties connecting it to other races? I see Ackbar’s people helping them out in the Clone Wars, but then disassociating themselves as the humans become less and less democratic in response to the war and Palpatine’s machinations.

You guys next….

32 replies on “Star Wars: Fannish Rambling on Moot Points”

  1. Jard says:

    My take on it
    I do not know if I would completely get rid of episode one just make some
    changes. Obviously no Jar-Jar and no pod racing. You do not have to get rid
    of midoclorins(sp?) altogether, just change the explanation to "they
    concentrate themselves in strong force users" then they can still serve the
    same story purpose (showing how powerful Anikan is) with out being such an
    obvious hack. Also make Anikan a teen. The theme would be the beginning
    of the rebellion, both for episode 4 and the clone wars. As in episode 1 we
    can see that the republic is ineffective at policing the outer rim. But I would
    have made a collection of brave pilots gathered from some of the
    surrounding star systems(tattooine) what saves the day, led by Anikan
    perhaps. Have Qui’Gon and Obi-Wan protect the planetary defense McGuffin
    on the ground which is where they meet one Darth Maul and his double
    bladed light saber.

    Episode 2 would have Anikans fall to the dark side, precipitated by his love
    for Padme. Because love leads to the dark side (which I call BS on but its
    Lucas’s world we just play in it). Have him get all jealous(rumors
    started by Palpatine) and kill someone. Then at the end with Doku, doku can
    try and turn him with that taint but just piss Anikan off more. Anikan kills
    Doku using his anger, but of course that just makes him slip more to the dark
    side. That would cement just how twisted the Dark side is, and make his fall
    much more believable. Of course the back drop to this whole thing would be
    the ongoing clone wars, I would have had Obi-Wan receiving the first batch of
    clones as the opening of the film.

    Episode 3 begins with the of the elimination of General Grievous and the end
    of the clone wars. Palpatine and Anikan plot to kill the Jedi. Some fabricated
    evidence is drummed up about the Jedi and they all are declared enemies of
    the state. Mace leads those Jedi that survive the initial betrayal to destroy the
    emperor, while yoda and Obi-Wan take on Vader. Vader gets all cut up, the
    other Jedi fall to the last. Padme fakes her death along with her female
    child(padme is injured in the attempt), Obi-Wan takes the son to tattoine.

    fin

  2. obiwan says:

    What bothered me about Anakin’s fall (spoilers)
    He went straight into “evil mode” right after Palpatine gives him the Darth Vader title. It’s like there’s a “good/evil” toggle switch he pushed (maybe that’s what the buttons on Darth Vader’s suit is) to turn him evil. No conflicted feelings. Nothing. He could have at least said “I’m sorry for what I’m about to do” to the younglings. Anakin wasn’t evil enough yet to slaughter children. He should have been obeying his new master’s orders but hating them, and hating himself too… it would have been much much more tragic that way.

    In the end, Obi-Wan should have tried to bring him back to the good side much the way Luke did (“Obi-Wan once thought as you do”). The fight would have been much more personal then. They should be not wanting to fight each other, but both are compelled to… that would have made awesome drama. But no….

  3. y42 says:

    I’d make it coherant
    I’ll just see what I would have done different based on what’s there.

    First up, Darth Maul: He should have been the first trilogy’s Darth Vader! Don’t kill off your cool villain, replace him with a lesser villain, kill him off, and replace him with a third generic villain, dammit!

    Then, I’d have made sure the story was well thought out instead of going “OMG! I can have ideas 2 weeks before the film goes to print and rush ’em in the final version!!1!one!”. So I wouldn’t have had incoherant Droid Factory scenes, the droids wouldn’t have come fresh out of the factory with the same burns and scratches as the “battle hardened” droids from the previous ep, I wouldn’t have had the exact same fish-bigger-fish adventure twice in the same movie, I wouldn’t have a character freak out about killing his mom’s killers only to then go on a totally guilt-free killing spree on another planet the following day, etc.

    And most importantly, I would have it be Star Wars, not Star Shit Jokes & Boring Romance. There’s a cut scene on the ep1 DVD of Qui Gon using force sense and swift light saber action to dispose of Maul’s camera drones, which they say was cut “for time”, but there’s PLENTY of Jar Jar shit and fart jokes in there! HELLO, we’re watching this for the lightsaber action, not the bantha poodoo gags.

    Lastly, I’d have had the turn to the dark and the clone wars shown in the second movie, keeping the happy-dark-happy motif, with the 3rd being mostly dark, but ending with the simultaneous birth of the rebelion and the twins… all symbolic-like.

  4. frunk says:

    Revised Episode III
    I really didn’t want to revisit the first two, but here’s a revised timeline for the second half of #3 that could have made it much better for me (I put it in spoiler tags just in case).

    1. Make Palpatine’s overtures to Anakin subtler, make MW discover Palpatine’s identity independently.
    2. Reshoot MW/Palpatine fight, have it set up so that Palpatine hides his powers from Anakin and MW is done in by Anakin. Preserves doubt in Anakin’s mind while increasing Anakin’s responsibility for MW’s death and his conviction that the Jedis are corrupt.
    3. Palpatine sends Anakin to do in the separatists.
    4. Padme pursues Anakin with Obi-wan in hiding having discovered Anakin’s killing of MW. Big fight goes the same way with better dialogue, although Padme really should get injured in some way and not just get the vapors.
    5. Palpatine recovers Anakin and reveals himself as DS. He also presents Anakin with a choice. "I can save you, or I can find Padme and save her". Hurt by Padme’s seeming rejection by bringing Obi-wan, Anakin chooses himself. This completes his final conversion to the Dark Side.
    6. Now in full regalia, Darth Vader stomps the rest of the Jedi including killing the little ones in the temple.

  5. karasoth says:

    Ok
    Episode I:
    I’d stick with the trade federation war as the begining of the end of the republic.

    We’d have youn Jedi Knight Obi-Wan with young Jedi Knight Red Sirt being sent in to help resolve the situation only to have young Jedi Red shirt die in the process as their ship crashes on the backwoods world of tatooine

    We’d meet an Anakin that is more Padme’s age and owen lars to. Anakin being the backwoods boy falls for the ideals of the republic and fighting for it… his best friend just wants to run a moisture farm. Anakin stows away as they get a ship to take them to corusant. In the process Obi-Wan discovered Anakin has a gift for the force.

    We have an ensuing battle with the trade federation with young Anakin stealing away to replace a dead commanding pilot and saving the day and being awarded heroic honors by padme

    2. the wars have gotten worse and the republic is unable to keep things up. talk of a clone army and emergency powers fills the republic with dread. Anakin Skywalker is now a legendary pilot who has a fighter wing based off naboo. Amidala is about to give up her throne to go to the imperial senate to try to fight for democracy and Obi-Wan gets exposed for training young Skywalker as a Jedi… the council which has lost many Jedi accepts the unorthodox approach. This film climaxes with a big battle in which the Jedi are saved by the clone army and anakin loses his hand but goes on tho slaughter the sith apprentice. Anakin becomes more the hero but now as a true jedi feels uneasy with what he has done in war.

    #3. Anakin is now a commanding officer in the republic fleet with his mentor and best friend obi-wan kenobi. their is tension when his wife amidala becomes the chief force in the senate opposing the chancellor. The Jedi begin to suspect the chancellor is a sith lord and ask Anakin to use his prestige to get closer to him. As anakin gets closer he see’s the corruption of the republic is just like that of naboo. and he see’s the chancellor as a man who has the strength to change it. he begins to question what he has been told about the sith, and about the jedi and increasingly is alienated from them.

    the civil war of the republic ends in a pyrrhic vistory where most of the worlds are unable to recover from the final victory and talk comes of centralizing power till things are rebuilt

    the jedi make a move to arrest the chancellor on the cusp of his decleration of empire and anakin turns on the Jedi in his mind to save the republic and its people from suffering. Anakin leads the purges of the Jedi personally, still in his mind trying to be a force to preserve order and balance but groping at more and more power. Padme flees from him as he leads an armada to capture her and the members of the senate who are trying to form a last ditch government in exile.

    she gives birth to luke and leia in exile and sets the orders to send them away. the ship carrying Leia flees before the arrival of anakin skywaler. Anakin decimates the forces on the planet but falls in the climactic duel to obi-wan kenobi who steals amidala and young luke away.

    Vader is now born as a true sith lord. More machine then man and less human. Vader orders the destruction of the ship with Padme on it in an attempt to crush the early rebelion. the ship is destroyed with only a single escape pod left where Ben Kenobi brings luke to the only person he knows whow ould care for young Luke… Owen Lars.

    Owen Lars has it out with him over the death of his best friend at the foolish jedi crusade. Baru calms him down and assures Obi-Wan that they will take care of luke but he better go.

    the scene ends with an officer reporting that they have confirmed the death of padme. Vader in a split second slices him in two with his light saber… the last act of a husbands regret for a wifes demise

  6. joe__gee says:

    Little nitpicky things …
    Battle droids. Why do they need to speak? Aren’t they controlled by large ships in space? And why must they speak with those damned cartoonish voices? Why would a droid say “uh oh”, and “blast them”, and “that does not compute.” Oh, that’s right, George is writing the dialogue. Unfortunately the Jedi versus the battle droids plays like the scene with the dodos in “Ice Age”.

    I thought General Grievous was supposed to be scary. I’m sorry, the effected slouch and the wheezing cough just made him seem old and tired to me. The outcome of Obi-Wan’s fight with Grievous was obvious, even without knowing that Obi-Wan survives the episode. Obi-Wan slices and dices a geriatric robot. God forbid your hero would fight a real villain.

    Oh wait, Grievous is “geriatric” in the Yoda sense. The effects of aging magically disappear in time for ass-kicking “not if anything I have to say about it” style.

    As for fighting, I didn’t see in the light saber battle between Anakin and Dooku any evidence that Anakin’s powers had doubled since they had previously fought. All I saw was a predetermined end to Dooku, because George said he had to die.

    Artificial gravity that conveniently changes orientation based on the orientation of the ship … I didn’t know Coruscant was a black hole that would generate such an intense gravity well that any craft nearby would obey the same physics in space, above the planet, as it would on the ground. Oh, George wrote it …

    I could easier accept “passion” between Anakin and Padme, whose performances could have been phoned in by animatronic figures, than I could accept the above nitpicky points. All in all, I loved the movie, but you know, if there IS another prequel, as has been rumored, I for one hope that Lucas decides its better placed in someone else’s hands (GEORGE: NOT RICK BERMAN, NOT BRANDON BRAGA). Maybe then we’ll see a movie that lives up to the potential of the saga.

    -Joe G.

    • Kaki says:

      Re: Little nitpicky things …

      I thought General Grievous was supposed to be scary. I’m sorry, the effected slouch and the wheezing cough just made him seem old and tired to me. The outcome of Obi-Wan’s fight with Grievous was obvious, even without knowing that Obi-Wan survives the episode. Obi-Wan slices and dices a geriatric robot. God forbid your hero would fight a real villain.

      What was the deal with the spinning sabers of impressive looking suckage? It seems like that would be a darn good strategy, but Obi-Wan halts it with a single block. And a single line about how truely good saber skills can only come from the Force, said by Obi-Wan in response to Grievous’ line about having been trained, would have given us a good reason for why a Jedi could take out a faster, stronger, better-armed, but non-Force-sensitive cyborg.

      Oh wait, Grievous is “geriatric” in the Yoda sense. The effects of aging magically disappear in time for ass-kicking “not if anything I have to say about it” style.

      Yoda should have had a more wu-wei, kung-fu, redirection of force style. The other person attacks and Yoda bends the attack so as to pull them off-balance or twirl their saber around using his own so they are forced to dodge their own saber.

      He could even use those claws of his to cut up the person while he does nothing with his saber except make the other person’s useless. Doesn’t he tell Luke not to use the Force to attack? He could have been all defence and redirection while still having the cool “flip around to fast to understand” stuff.

      And when Sidious threw lightening at him, he could have barely defected it at first, done a little scrunchy “focus face”, and redirected the lightening back.

      Artificial gravity that conveniently changes orientation based on the orientation of the ship … I didn’t know Coruscant was a black hole that would generate such an intense gravity well that any craft nearby would obey the same physics in space, above the planet, as it would on the ground. Oh, George wrote it …

      Actually, the gravity makes sense when you assume that the ship wasn’t in a freefall type orbit. It was stationary, just above the atmosphere, using lots of power to stay there. Atmospheres are pretty thin, so it wasn’t even 1.1 times the radius of the planet from the planet’s center. At 1.1 times the radius, the gravity they felt would still have been about 80% of that at the surface.

      • joe__gee says:

        Re: Little nitpicky things …

        What was the deal with the spinning sabers of impressive looking suckage? It seems like that would be a darn good strategy, but Obi-Wan halts it with a single block. And a single line about how truely good saber skills can only come from the Force, said by Obi-Wan in response to Grievous’ line about having been trained, would have given us a good reason for why a Jedi could take out a faster, stronger, better-armed, but non-Force-sensitive cyborg.

        Yup, Obi Wan barely broke a sweat taking Grievous down to two hands.

        Yoda should have had a more wu-wei, kung-fu, redirection of force style. The other person attacks and Yoda bends the attack so as to pull them off-balance or twirl their saber around using his own so they are forced to dodge their own saber.

        He could even use those claws of his to cut up the person while he does nothing with his saber except make the other person’s useless. Doesn’t he tell Luke not to use the Force to attack? He could have been all defence and redirection while still having the cool “flip around to fast to understand” stuff.

        And when Sidious threw lightening at him, he could have barely defected it at first, done a little scrunchy “focus face”, and redirected the lightening back.

        That would have been subtle, and cool. Lucas is not one for subtlety. :/

        Actually, the gravity makes sense when you assume that the ship wasn’t in a freefall type orbit. It was stationary, just above the atmosphere, using lots of power to stay there. Atmospheres are pretty thin, so it wasn’t even 1.1 times the radius of the planet from the planet’s center. At 1.1 times the radius, the gravity they felt would still have been about 80% of that at the surface.

        The ISS orbits at ~120 miles above the Earth. The Earth’s radius is 3963 statute miles. At 1.03 times the Earth’s radius distance from its core the ISS experiences microgravity. But you’re right, once the ship began to descend into Coruscant’s atmosphere the G-forces would have caused everything to fall in the direction of the plunge, so maybe that’s what’s going on. On the other hand, Obi Wan observes that they are entering the atmosphere well after he, Palpatine, Anakin, and Artoo are on the bridge of Grievous’ ship, after they’ve run through George’s Enormous Revolving Set of Doom Replicated on Green Screen ™. :)

        Speaking of sets, was that the same tunnel Obi Wan chased Grievous down in which Indiana Jones also ran away from the big round boulder? It sure looked like it.

        Thanks for your comment. :) Like I said, it’s just little nitpicky stuff. :)

        -Joe

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: Little nitpicky things …

      Battle droids. Why do they need to speak? Aren’t they controlled by large ships in space? And why must they speak with those damned cartoonish voices? Why would a droid say “uh oh”, and “blast them”, and “that does not compute.” Oh, that’s right, George is writing the dialogue. Unfortunately the Jedi versus the battle droids plays like the scene with the dodos in “Ice Age”.

      Even beyond the absurdity of their cartoonishness, it makes no sense from a military standpoint. Why have droids communicating in a way easily understood by eavesdroppers? “Droid 33425, go search behind those trees.” “Sir, they’re going to search behind the trees!” Plus, for droids, vocal communication is *HIGHLY* ineffecient. Some sort of wireless communication makes more sense. Or, if not wireless, at least something akin to modem traffic that a human wouldn’t understand and that has more “bandwidth” than words.

      I thought General Grievous was supposed to be scary. I’m sorry, the effected slouch and the wheezing cough just made him seem old and tired to me. The outcome of Obi-Wan’s fight with Grievous was obvious, even without knowing that Obi-Wan survives the episode. Obi-Wan slices and dices a geriatric robot. God forbid your hero would fight a real villain.

      General Grievous was such a *HUGE* disappointment. Hey, Obi-Wan, don’t pick on him. He has asthma!

  7. dkichline says:

    Interesting idea on PvP
    See Sunday, May 29th’s page for PvP

    • Kaki says:

      Re: Interesting idea on PvP

      See Sunday, May 29th’s page for PvP

      I wanted a more prototype-ish version of Vader too. Going from still steaming, crackling burns to armored in a single stroke was just too much.

    • chad says:

      Re: Interesting idea on PvP

      See Sunday, May 29th’s page for PvP

      I think you meant Saturday, May 28th’s page (link here).

  8. chad says:

    Dearth of Aliens in Empire

    4. Yeah, I�ve rambled on about this before but, Separatist Movements aside, Ep 1 shows a chaotic, multi-species Republic and the classic trilogy shows an entirely human Empire. Why not, from the start, have a human Republic, no doubt with affiliations and treaties connecting it to other races? I see Ackbar�s people helping them out in the Clone Wars, but then disassociating themselves as the humans become less and less democratic in response to the war and Palpatine�s machinations.

    In the expanded universe novels (starting with Zahn’s original trilogy), the explanation for this is that the emperor had a bias against non-humans and excluded them from important positions within the empire and the military. Remember that it was because Grand Admiral Thrawn was so much better than anyone else that he was the only non-human to be granted the rank or Grand Admiral–and even then it was done in secrecy.

    • Timeshredder says:

      Yeah, I’m nitpicking, but it’s a nitpickful thread

      So I’ve heard. It’s some kind of explanation, but (1) it’s largely missing from the film. We shouldn’t have to read the spin-off books to make sense of something and (2)I’m finding it hard to believe that the sheer number of species we saw in the Senate, all with access to the same technology, could be so overwelmed by a minority of humans, especially in so short a time.

      • Jard says:

        Re: Yeah, I’m nitpicking, but it’s a nitpickful thread

        (2)I’m finding it hard to believe that the sheer number of species we saw
        in the Senate, all with access to the same technology, could be so overwelmed
        by a minority of humans, especially in so short a time.

        You would need a relatively small number of any group once they had control
        of the only standing army (the clones).

        • y42 says:

          Re: Yeah, I’m nitpicking, but it’s a nitpickful thread

          (2)I’m finding it hard to believe that the sheer number of species we saw
          in the Senate, all with access to the same technology, could be so overwelmed
          by a minority of humans, especially in so short a time.

          You would need a relatively small number of any group once they had control
          of the only standing army (the clones).

          What bothered me was that Palpatine was hanging out with aliens.

  9. AceCaseOR says:

    Mmkay, my revision…
    Jar Jar Binks does not exist. The prequels as they are, are, well, mediochre. Episode III is good though. Things I would do:

    • Ditch the “Jedi can not no love” thing. We should be getting a love story along the lines of Ulic Qel-Droma and Nomi Sunrider. Perhaps having a few other Jedi having families. Keep Anakin’s fall to the dark side having to do with his “visions”, though. If it worked for the Greek Tragedies, it works for Star Wars.
    • Make it clear that, at the end of Episode III that there are still Jedi alive (maybe toss Kieran Halcyon (sp?) and Hal Horn doing investigative work on Corellia, getting screwed by their clone backup and thereafter taking out the backup. In turn Halcyon has Hal take care of little Corran, because he wouldn’t be safe with his father).
    • I would have had the Republic forces at the Battle of Coruscant using Z-95 Headhunters, but that may be just me.
    • I’d also work a few more bits of the EU in there in subtle ways that are sort of like easter eggs. The harm can be minimal, and it’ll probably improve book sales.

    And that’s all I can think of right now.

  10. Eldhrin says:

    So I’ve not seen Ep3 yet but…
    …how can a droid with four lightsabers be the slightest threat to a Jedi Master?
    In Ep5, Yoda picks up Luke’s X-Wing using the Force. A droid, we assume,
    cannot use the Force and so cannot defend itself against the Force. Why,
    therefore, not just hold the droid immobile, break its lightsabers and slice it up?

    Or is the Force no longer solely the province of biological life forms? Stupid
    Lucas.

    • joe__gee says:

      Re: So I’ve not seen Ep3 yet but…

      …how can a droid with four lightsabers be the slightest threat to a Jedi Master?
      In Ep5, Yoda picks up Luke’s X-Wing using the Force. A droid, we assume,
      cannot use the Force and so cannot defend itself against the Force. Why,
      therefore, not just hold the droid immobile, break its lightsabers and slice it up?

      Or is the Force no longer solely the province of biological life forms? Stupid
      Lucas.

      Grievous is not completely a droid. He’s a cyborg. I assumed his living components allowed him access to the Force. :)

      -Joe G.

      • ultraexactzz says:

        Re: So I’ve not seen Ep3 yet but…

        …how can a droid with four lightsabers be the slightest threat to a Jedi Master?
        In Ep5, Yoda picks up Luke’s X-Wing using the Force. A droid, we assume,
        cannot use the Force and so cannot defend itself against the Force. Why,
        therefore, not just hold the droid immobile, break its lightsabers and slice it up?

        Or is the Force no longer solely the province of biological life forms? Stupid
        Lucas.

        Grievous is not completely a droid. He’s a cyborg. I assumed his living components allowed him access to the Force. :)

        -Joe G.

        Star Wars: Visionaries sheds some additional light on the subject. Apparently, Dooku had Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas in cryogenic suspended animation for ten years. When Greivous was constructed, Sifo-Dyas’s blood was transfused into Greivous, to give him some command of the force via midichlorians.

        Bear in mind that Visionaries is a collection of short stories based on concept work done for Ep III and cut – all ideas from Lucas himself.

        • scharkalvin says:

          Re: So I’ve not seen Ep3 yet but…

          …how can a droid with four lightsabers be the slightest threat to a Jedi Master?
          In Ep5, Yoda picks up Luke’s X-Wing using the Force. A droid, we assume,
          cannot use the Force and so cannot defend itself against the Force. Why,
          therefore, not just hold the droid immobile, break its lightsabers and slice it up?

          Or is the Force no longer solely the province of biological life forms? Stupid
          Lucas.

          Grievous is not completely a droid. He’s a cyborg. I assumed his living components allowed him access to the Force. :)

          -Joe G.

          Star Wars: Visionaries sheds some additional light on the subject. Apparently, Dooku had Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas in cryogenic suspended animation for ten years. When Greivous was constructed, Sifo-Dyas’s blood was transfused into Greivous, to give him some command of the force via midichlorians.

          Bear in mind that Visionaries is a collection of short stories based on concept work done for Ep III and cut – all ideas from Lucas himself.

          Actually Greivous reminded me of the cyborg villian from Robocop.

  11. joe__gee says:

    One point I had missed …
    Brought to my attention last night by a fellow fan, I noticed Padme was pregnant when she was buried. I thought it unusual, until someone pointed out to me that if she were still pregnant when she died then the children would have never been born … Lucas actually did something subtle and didn’t have the Cute Critter of the Film ™ point it out to us (“meesa thought Padme had two kiddos””Hush Jar Jar, thatsa secret yousa should been keepin.”)? Or I am just slow?

    Maybe I don’t want to know the answer to that. :)

    -Joe G.

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: One point I had missed …

      Brought to my attention last night by a fellow fan, I noticed Padme was pregnant when she was buried. I thought it unusual, until someone pointed out to me that if she were still pregnant when she died then the children would have never been born … Lucas actually did something subtle and didn’t have the Cute Critter of the Film ™ point it out to us (“meesa thought Padme had two kiddos””Hush Jar Jar, thatsa secret yousa should been keepin.”)? Or I am just slow?

      Maybe I don’t want to know the answer to that. :)

      -Joe G.

      I just assumed it was the pregnancy belly she’d died before she could shed.

      • Timeshredder says:

        Re: One point I had missed …

        I just assumed it was the pregnancy belly she’d died before she could shed.

        I can’t see it being that big, especially after being prepared for burial. Given the people who knew about the births, I suspect we’re supposed to guess that they covered the births up.

    • Kaki says:

      Re: One point I had missed …

      Brought to my attention last night by a fellow fan, I noticed Padme was pregnant when she was buried. I thought it unusual, until someone pointed out to me that if she were still pregnant when she died then the children would have never been born … Lucas actually did something subtle and didn’t have the Cute Critter of the Film ™ point it out to us (“meesa thought Padme had two kiddos””Hush Jar Jar, thatsa secret yousa should been keepin.”)? Or I am just slow?

      Maybe I don’t want to know the answer to that. :)

      -Joe G.

      No, you aren’t slow. They had her looking like she was still pregnant, which answers the criticism some (who must have missed the big belly) still raise about why Vader never found his kid(s). He thought his child was dead, dead by his own hand. He never thought to look.

      • scharkalvin says:

        Re: One point I had missed …

        Brought to my attention last night by a fellow fan, I noticed Padme was pregnant when she was buried. I thought it unusual, until someone pointed out to me that if she were still pregnant when she died then the children would have never been born … Lucas actually did something subtle and didn’t have the Cute Critter of the Film ™ point it out to us (“meesa thought Padme had two kiddos””Hush Jar Jar, thatsa secret yousa should been keepin.”)? Or I am just slow?

        Maybe I don’t want to know the answer to that. :)

        -Joe G.

        No, you aren’t slow. They had her looking like she was still pregnant, which answers the criticism some (who must have missed the big belly) still raise about why Vader never found his kid(s). He thought his child was dead, dead by his own hand. He never thought to look.

        If they really wanted to keep the kids a secret from Vader, why does Luke go by the name ‘Skywalker’! For crying out loud SOMEBODY on that scum sucking planet would have sold the fact out to the Empire and Luck would be Banther food long before he could ever become a Jedi.

  12. joe__gee says:

    Minor continuity confuzzlement …
    In episode VI, doesn’t Leia say she knew her mother, she remembered her mother had dark hair that she used to brush and brush? How could she know a mother that died at child birth? She must have been talking about Senator Organa’s wife?

    Padme croaks and falls completely off the map, poor woman. :(

    -Joe G.

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: Minor continuity confuzzlement …

      In episode VI, doesn’t Leia say she knew her mother, she remembered her mother had dark hair that she used to brush and brush? How could she know a mother that died at child birth? She must have been talking about Senator Organa’s wife?

      This is an inconsistency that has been pointed out elsewhere. It’s possible Queen Organa dies sometime during Leia’s childhood, and Leia thinks of her instead of Padme. Or, as with anything else in Star Wars, if it makes no sense, blame The Force.

      • ultraexactzz says:

        Re: Minor continuity confuzzlement …

        In episode VI, doesn’t Leia say she knew her mother, she remembered her mother had dark hair that she used to brush and brush? How could she know a mother that died at child birth? She must have been talking about Senator Organa’s wife?

        This is an inconsistency that has been pointed out elsewhere. It’s possible Queen Organa dies sometime during Leia’s childhood, and Leia thinks of her instead of Padme. Or, as with anything else in Star Wars, if it makes no sense, blame The Force.

        The novelization has Leia being born first, and (somehow) gazing into her mother’s eyes – a moment burned into the girl’s memory for the rest of her life. Luke was born second, as his mother died – so he had no memory of his mother.

        THAT would have been incredibly subtle… too bad it did not make the final cut.

        • yodapez18 says:

          Re: Minor continuity confuzzlement …

          In episode VI, doesn’t Leia say she knew her mother, she remembered her mother had dark hair that she used to brush and brush? How could she know a mother that died at child birth? She must have been talking about Senator Organa’s wife?

          This is an inconsistency that has been pointed out elsewhere. It’s possible Queen Organa dies sometime during Leia’s childhood, and Leia thinks of her instead of Padme. Or, as with anything else in Star Wars, if it makes no sense, blame The Force.

          how about leia just made it up? not everyone has a photographic memory and maybe leia grew up trying to convince herself that she knew her real mother, hell it could have been a nurse or something.

          I would have had the sepratists use clones of their own. its called the Clone wars, why not make it between clones? gL kind of endorses the books, so why not add an occasional harmless element to back them up? Some of the backstory in Timothy Zahns books was better then what we saw. i thought we’d see the beginning of the relbellion and i REALLY thought padme would be behind it at least a little. They could have had a scene where she mon mothma, bail organa and the lst two jedi meet and talk about it. maybe their new explorer friends from a water world could offer to help (Enter Admiral “Its a trap” Ackbar)

          It would have been nice to see some preliminary construction for the Death star, unless they built it as one unit overnight, maybe an eclipse class ship wasting naboo? because we sure don’t here from that world again.
          During the battle between obi wan and anakin i really would ahve liked to hear Quai Gon helping out Obi wan, becuase thas really the only way anyone should ahve been able to beat anakin. Dooku sucked from day one i would have edited him out and just kept using Darth maul. Grevious? well see he would be a good nemesis for Obi wan “Limb chopper” kenobi, Minus the pod racing and the fish scene Episode 1 asn’t so bad for me. obiously GL has lost any type o edge he might have had, and wants to turn star wars into the next Muppet movie. I can kind of imagine the two hecklers having a booth in the senate.
          “Is this how democracy ends? with applause?”
          Dohohohoho! Thats terrible! Where does she get those?”

          so to sum it up. Don’t shorchange the padme character you started in Ep I and II, use her to start the rebellion. Make a more plausible and frankly eventful clone war, because who gives a shit about a war between robots and clones? That is kind of objectionable, that you would create a race of cannon fodder. Keep maul around longer, give Quai gon more of a role, drop Dooku make grevious a minor character, um introduce THRAWN? that would be sweet, and yes, leave one or two leftover jedi, because if there are REALLY just obi wan yoda, and Vader and sidious, you are opening up to fan objections taht the force was balanced by killing the jedi, and that Vader fooked it up when he killed the sith because now the force is slanted to the lightside.

          Stylistically, I would have used those crazy new fighters in the first movie, having the jedi help a little moe then two measly jedi. X wongs and y wings all throughout ep III, and absolutely none o those rediculous Tie wannabees, those just looked stupid. The talking Robots were funny, im leaving them in. The gladiator ripoff scene wasn’t prticularly neccesary either it could ahve been done so as not to be so overt. I have no idea where the audience went or where it came from to begin with. mace Windu, i think was handled nicely although i could have seen the character turn to the darkside, maybe maul bites in ep II and Windu trains as a sith in Ep III only to redeem himself by trying to protect the jedi children in Ep III. Could have ben cool to see a Cameo by Vergere from the newer books, shes a cool character but i still can’t picture her.

          Might have changed the “Odballs” squadron to have the rogue squadron logo and the green stripe but maybe thats pushing it.

          I think the real question the prequels should ahve answered is what is the thing those two Stormtroopers are talking about when Obi wan is sneaking around on the Death star
          “You see that new ___ ” “Yeah I hear its quite a thing to see”
          WHAT IS IT???

  13. DavidTC says:

    I’d just change the third prequel.
    Once you start changing everything, of course you can make it better. I’m with the people who think we didn’t even need the first movie.

    But I think it could be made better with one change to the last movie…I’d make the first 3/4th of the movie the first 1/4 instead.

    I’d start with the Clone War having just ended, and some faked evidence against the Jedi. Make Anakin dream about Padme dying, have Anakin hear evidence from Palpatine that the Jedi are behind it all, but have doubts, but consider working with Palpatine.

    No hints of using the dark side to save her. It’s a good idea, but doesn’t work there. Have hints, instead, that the Jedi will attempt to use his child and Padme against him.

    And then, before Anakin does anything ‘evil’, have him cause Padme’s death. Either by accident, or just paranoia. And make it so he can blame the Jedi, but everyone, himself included, can see it’s really Anakin’s fault. (Or even Palpatine’s, for setting the whole situtation up.)

    And this happens like 1/2 into the movie, not the end. And this clearly cause her to die, not just be injured…like a stab wound through the chest with a lightsaber. Or a broken neck. None of this ‘rush her off to surgery’ crap, and have Anakin ignore the chance she’s still alive or could be saved.

    And something improbably allows her children to be saved that Anakin has no idea of. Or even better, we don’t get told this, they’re just the slightest hint that, maybe, her ‘child’ lived, and no hint there are two of them. (Give Obi-Wan a mission to Tatooine, but don’t tell us what it is, for example.) Let’s have some suspense if you watch the movies in order!

    And Anakin just snaps. Not even working for Palpatine at first.

    Then we have a showdown with Anakin, Obi-wan, Palpatine, and, oh, Mace Windu, where Obi-wan denounces Palpatine, Palpatine says he’s working for the whole force, and he could have saved Padme, and Anakin, shockingly, chooses Palpatine’s side and kills Mace Windu. Or something like that.

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