Battlestar Galactica: Resurrection Ship, Part Two

The second part of last week’s episode doesn’t disappoint.

Cast

James Callis as
Dr. Gaius Baltar
Edward James
Olmos
as Commander Adama
Mary
McDonnell
as President Laura Roslin
Katee
Sackhoff
as Kara “Starbuck” Thrace
Jamie
Bamber
as Lee “Apollo” Adama
Michael
Hogan
as Col. Tigh
Tricia Helfer as
Number 6
Grace Park as
Sharon “Boomer” Valerii
Tahmoh
Penikett
as Helo
Aaron
Douglas
as CPO Galen Tyrol
Michelle
Forbes
as Admiral Helena Cain

Synopsis

Pegasus and Galactica launch the attack on the
Cylon resurrection ship.

High Points

  • Starbuck and Cain’s scene in Cain’s quarters near the start of the
    episode.
  • Boomer: You said that humanity never asked itself why it deserved
    to survive. Maybe you don’t.
  • Adama: It’s not enough to survive. One has to be worthy of
    surviving.

Low Point

Find me one and I’ll put it here.

The Scores

This episode feels nice and original. Elements have been
seen before of course, but it’s combined in an interesting and exciting
way. Five out of six.

Full marks for effects. The sight of two Basestars and two
Battlestars duking it out with hundreds of fighters between them is
unmatched in the series and utterly, utterly beautiful. Six out of six.

As a continuation of last week’s episode, the story lives
up to all expectations. I can’t say much because to give away a great
deal about this episode to those who haven’t seen it would be criminal,
but the tension at the end of the previous episode is resolved, and it’s
not done in a trivial or insignificant manner. Six out of six.

There was a little bit of over-acting in this episode, from
the two Pegasus Specialists, who were rather too stereotypical.
I don’t think anybody could fault Katee Sackhoff and the others,
though. Sackhoff in particular always seems to know the perfect
expression to show what’s going on inside Starbuck’s mind. Five out of
six.

This was emotional response of the pulse-pounding,
heart-hammering, breath-coming-shallow variety. Six out of six.

The production was superb. I’m not going to overanalyse
it because I’d end up describing most of the episode. Six out of six.

Overall, I can’t look back out of this episode and be
disappointed in any part of it. Except perhaps that it wasn’t twice as
long. Six out of six.

And that gives a massive total score of forty out of forty-two.

Unanswered Questions

I’ll put these in black as they’re inherently spoilerish.

Where is Six? Why does Baltar know
somewhere she can go and be safe, and how did he arrange it? What
has happened to the Six inside Baltar’s head? Has he banished her?
Does this mean she was a delusion all along, as she once suggested?

On what basis were Tyrol and Helo released?
Why was Dualla listening to Starbuck and Apollo at the end, and how
much does she know about what Starbuck almost did? What does she
think of it?

51 replies on “Battlestar Galactica: Resurrection Ship, Part Two”

  1. lost says:

    Excellent episode…
    It was really nice to see the references back to the beginning and Adama’s speech then. It gives the overall story a sense of cohesion.

    Also, I really liked the battle scene. There was some nice details in there that make it obvious that the production team has considered physics when doing the space scenes. (Vipers moving sidewise while firing at the enemy, for example.)

  2. Babbster says:

    Battle Sequences As Art
    The more I think about the BG space battles, the more they remind me of old-time science fiction paintings. There’s a grace that comes from the smooth visual effects and the sparse sound which make those sequences feel like a ballet. I’ve encountered a similar effect when watching slow-motion football replays. This episode enbiggened my soul.

    • Trekkie says:

      Re: Battle Sequences As Art

      The more I think about the BG space battles, the more they remind me of old-time science fiction paintings. There’s a grace that comes from the smooth visual effects and the sparse sound which make those sequences feel like a ballet. I’ve encountered a similar effect when watching slow-motion football replays. This episode enbiggened my soul.

      I have a 30" widescreen TV in a cabinet above my fireplace that I watch this show on. I also had to take my contacts out early that evening due to grit.

      I jumped up and stood less than 3" from the screen to soak that all in. Was absolutely fabulous to watch. There was so much going on in that sequence.

      I can’t wait for the box set on DVD to come out so I can watch it in 480p widescreen on my 57" upstairs and really soak that all in.

      Just beautifuly done. The lack of sound was great as well.

  3. babasyzygy says:

    Cain
    The battle was stunningly gorgeous. And the part where the resurrection ship
    was being destroyed, with dozens of burning bodies hurling into space, was
    truly terrible and haunting.

    Cain’s reaction during Starbuck’s report back was interesting. I was left with the
    impression that she understood exactly what was going on.

    • Eldhrin says:

      Re: Cain

      The battle was stunningly gorgeous. And the part where the resurrection ship
      was being destroyed, with dozens of burning bodies hurling into space, was
      truly terrible and haunting.

      Cain’s reaction during Starbuck’s report back was interesting. I was left with the
      impression that she understood exactly what was going on.

      Yes, I think she probably did. And I think she knew what Adama said, and I think that’s why she abandoned her own plan.

  4. Damien says:

    some thoughts

    Where is Six? Why does Baltar know somewhere she can go and be safe, and how did he arrange it?

    He’s the VP, he probably has lots of tricks. It was a little easy though.

    What has happened to the Six inside Baltar’s head? Has he banished her? Does this mean she was a delusion all along, as she once suggested?

    She can’t be a dilusion as everyone else saw her in an early episode when she told Adama that Baltar was a traitor. She did vanish around a corner, though, so I wonder if it was a mass dilusion powered by an unknown force/object?

    I particularly liked the Cain / Starbuck talk early on, it appeared obvious to me that Cain knew what was going on, especially when at the end Cain gave her the intercom receiver before she gave her instruction when she had every opportunity to do otherwise. She knew that Adama had ordered her assassination, asked Starbuck to not flinch when the order would come through, knew that when Adama asked for Starbuck that she was going to die, and was then surprised when it didn’t happen, I think that’s why she had to pause for a moment when talking to her guy onboard BSG.

    A very, very good episode.

    Damien

    • madhack says:

      Re: some thoughts

      She can’t be a dilusion as everyone else saw her in an early episode when she told Adama that Baltar was a traitor. She did vanish around a corner, though, so I wonder if it was a mass dilusion powered by an unknown force/object?

      I was under the impression that that particular Number Six was an actual physical Cylon. Obviously there was one at one time (on Caprica), but the whole point is that, since he was rescued from Caprica by Boomer, the guilt has been gnawing at him and that’s one of the driving reasons for him to imagine that Number Six is still with him. He fell in love and then was used by the object of that love to exterminate his species. That seems like a perfectly reasonable trigger for delusions and hallucinations, among other, more severe psychological damage.

      So why did Baltar know a few key things at key times (such as where to target the Cylon mining facility for instant destruction)? I’ll go out on a limb and give my theory: Baltar is a Cylon sleeper. I’m usually wrong about these things, though…

      • Eldhrin says:

        Re: some thoughts
        Or he really does have a chip in his head and some information is leaking from it.

  5. J_W_W says:

    High point, and Low Point
    As others have stated, my high point for the episode was the battle scenes. But, I also have a low point and that is …. the battle scenes.

    This episode makes me crave an episode totally centered around a massive space battle. They could have done a good 30 minutes of space battle and if it were done to the standards of what little we actually saw of this battle it would have been _amazing_. Severed Dreams is by far my favorite episode of Babylon 5 for this reason. The entire episode is the battle to defend the station, and plays amazingly.

    The writers of this series and the effects people could definately carry off an entire episode of battle. The battle scenes done for this ep. were utterly jaw dropping.

    I want more of that!!

    Alas, I know there’s cost and time at work in the effects here, but it would be great to see.

    As far as the rest of the episode, I was somewhat dissapointed Gina (Pegasus’ cylon, I don’t think shes called by name in the show) didn’t die. Here the Cylons are so religious, but yet they don’t die. Gina’s willingness to face death would have been a true test of faith. In fact, I was wondering during the episode why a civilization that essentially doesn’t have death is so faithful. It could be an interesting aspect to explore about the Cylons.

    I also felt the scene with Adama and Sharon was a little contrived. While Adama’s speach asks some big questions about humanity, I would have liked to hear him reply to Sharon. "Even if humanity doesn’t deserve to survive, what gives you (cylons) the right to be judge, jury and executioner." There’s a lot on this show right now exploring the humanity of humans and cylons, but there memories seem to get short at times about what actions the cylons have to answer for. The point where the six in Baltar’s head is freaking out about them killing _thousands_ of cylon bodies, was really one sided when coming from a representative of a group that committed the genocide of billions.

    Ok, I guess my talking so long must mean that this one hell of a show.

    • Eldhrin says:

      Re: High point, and Low Point
      True, but we do also know that Baltar’s Six is very one-sided, and doesn’t consider the genocide of humanity a problem at all. She cares about her own people only. Some of them, at least.

    • Babbster says:

      Re: High point, and Low Point

      As far as the rest of the episode, I was somewhat dissapointed Gina (Pegasus’ cylon, I don’t think shes called by name in the show) didn’t die. Here the Cylons are so religious, but yet they don’t die. Gina’s willingness to face death would have been a true test of faith. In fact, I was wondering during the episode why a civilization that essentially doesn’t have death is so faithful. It could be an interesting aspect to explore about the Cylons.

      They’re probably so faithful because they are – or at least believe they are – in direct contact with "God." This could explain why they’re so adamant about there being a single God when the culture that created them (and, thus, the religion about which their memory cores would originally have had information) is polytheistic.

      As to "Gina" ending up escaping instead of "facing death," I suspect that may be why Baltar’s Six was angry about Baltar making the personal love connection with her. It might have been part of the big plan for that Cylon to be killed after her long torture at the hands of the humans and Baltar frakked it up. Or, she could have just been jealous. :)

    • Jethro says:

      Re: High point, and Low Point

      The point where the six in Baltar’s head is freaking out about them killing _thousands_ of cylon bodies, was really one sided when coming from a representative of a group that committed the genocide of billions.

      Ah, but she was upset about thousands of innocent cylons being killed. I think that in the cylons’ heads, no humans are innocent.

    • nkuzmik says:

      Re: High point, and Low Point

      As far as the rest of the episode, I was somewhat dissapointed Gina (Pegasus’ cylon, I don’t think shes called by name in the show) didn’t die. Here the Cylons are so religious, but yet they don’t die. Gina’s willingness to face death would have been a true test of faith. In fact, I was wondering during the episode why a civilization that essentially doesn’t have death is so faithful. It could be an interesting aspect to explore about the Cylons.
      [\quote]Being an atheist with a degree in literature, I find the plot device of "machines" with "religion" to be a facinating premise, but from a theological standpoint, it’s easy to be faithful when there is nothing to test said faith.

      I also felt the scene with Adama and Sharon was a little contrived. While Adama’s speach asks some big questions about humanity, I would have liked to hear him reply to Sharon. "Even if humanity doesn’t deserve to survive, what gives you (cylons) the right to be judge, jury and executioner." There’s a lot on this show right now exploring the humanity of humans and cylons, but there memories seem to get short at times about what actions the cylons have to answer for. The point where the six in Baltar’s head is freaking out about them killing _thousands_ of cylon bodies, was really one sided when coming from a representative of a group that committed the genocide of billions.

      The following is a an exerciese called "Forced Choice." I will ask a series of questions, with yes or no answers, and those respondants who chose to particpate, must answer either yes or no, there is no middle ground here.

      1: Were the Colonial Fleet’s actions against the Resurrection Ship were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

      2: From a military perspective were the Colonial pilots actions against the disabled Cylon ships in Phoenix inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

      3: Were Starbuck’s attempt to interrogate Leoben were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

      4: Were Lt. Thorn’s attempt to interrogate Gina were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

      5: Were Lt. Thorn’s attempt to interrogate Boomer were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

      So… When do the "Hell NO!" answers start appearing"?

      One final note… DING-DONG, the *ITCH IS DEAD!!!!

      • J_W_W says:

        Re: High point, and Low Point

        As far as the rest of the episode, I was somewhat dissapointed Gina (Pegasus’ cylon, I don’t think shes called by name in the show) didn’t die. Here the Cylons are so religious, but yet they don’t die. Gina’s willingness to face death would have been a true test of faith. In fact, I was wondering during the episode why a civilization that essentially doesn’t have death is so faithful. It could be an interesting aspect to explore about the Cylons.
        [\quote]Being an atheist with a degree in literature, I find the plot device of "machines" with "religion" to be a facinating premise, but from a theological standpoint, it’s easy to be faithful when there is nothing to test said faith.

        I also felt the scene with Adama and Sharon was a little contrived. While Adama’s speach asks some big questions about humanity, I would have liked to hear him reply to Sharon. "Even if humanity doesn’t deserve to survive, what gives you (cylons) the right to be judge, jury and executioner." There’s a lot on this show right now exploring the humanity of humans and cylons, but there memories seem to get short at times about what actions the cylons have to answer for. The point where the six in Baltar’s head is freaking out about them killing _thousands_ of cylon bodies, was really one sided when coming from a representative of a group that committed the genocide of billions.

        The following is a an exerciese called "Forced Choice." I will ask a series of questions, with yes or no answers, and those respondants who chose to particpate, must answer either yes or no, there is no middle ground here.

        1: Were the Colonial Fleet’s actions against the Resurrection Ship were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        2: From a military perspective were the Colonial pilots actions against the disabled Cylon ships in Phoenix inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        3: Were Starbuck’s attempt to interrogate Leoben were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        4: Were Lt. Thorn’s attempt to interrogate Gina were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        5: Were Lt. Thorn’s attempt to interrogate Boomer were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        So… When do the "Hell NO!" answers start appearing"?

        One final note… DING-DONG, the *ITCH IS DEAD!!!!

        I would have to say I would answer No to the first three questions. For the first two, they are directly at war and no matter how you slice it, _every_ humanoid cylon shown so far has been an active participant, and not an innocent. And in fact the resurrection ship contains for all intents and purposes reinforcements.

        While Starbuck’s actions against Leoben were borderline torture, I would still say that her actions were not because of Leoben’s direct indication that at any time he could have stopped her (ie. he possessed inhuman capacity to resist so more whould have been required to actaully torture him, in my opinion). In that ep. Leoben’s the one playing the mind games, not Starbuck. Although Starbuck can still be somewhat scarred by those events.

        Of course the last two are not acceptable because they cross way over the line in their treatment of Gina and attempted treatment of Sharon. But while those actions are in my opinion wrong, a case could be made to execute both of them for the actions they have taken. However, it is interesting to note that Boomer would have to be convicted of the other Boomer’s crimes, as she’s actually has yet to carry out any action against the humans and has actively helped them on many occasions. Of course, that’s why her character is so interesting.

        But as far as cylon sympathy, only three have been shown so far that really deserve any, I believe they are Gina (some), Boomer (major divided loyalties), and the only truly "innocent" cylon, Boomers baby.

        Of course they will deal with that issue next week. They really know what they are doing writing this show.

      • TomSwiss says:

        Re: High point, and Low Point

        1: Were the Colonial Fleet’s actions…inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        I must answer "yes" to all of your questions, because of they way they are phrased as "or" conditions. They were all "inhumane" acts. That does not mean that they were all unethical.

        To use violence to stop an immediate or on-going threat (as in your cases 1 and 2) is not unethical, though it is usually inhumane ("lacking pity or compassion"). Few can hold compassion for an agressor at the same time they act with defensive violence. (Though that is the ultimate goal of the martial arts as a spiritual path, the "sword that gives life".)

        To use violence against a helpless prisoner (your cases 3, 4, and 5) is unethical. Starbuck stepped over the line; Thorn long-jumped it and kept on running.

      • Trekkie says:

        Re: High point, and Low Point

        1: Were the Colonial Fleet’s actions against the Resurrection Ship were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        2: From a military perspective were the Colonial pilots actions against the disabled Cylon ships in Phoenix inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        3: Were Starbuck’s attempt to interrogate Leoben were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        4: Were Lt. Thorn’s attempt to interrogate Gina were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        5: Were Lt. Thorn’s attempt to interrogate Boomer were inhummane or in any way morally wrong?

        I’ll bite. I’ve been thinking about it for a few days and figured I’d add my few bits to the internet on this.

        1: No. This is a supply ship, nothing more. It’s the apparatus to create more resources away from home.

        2: Viewed in the way it was shown, no. Had the cylons screamed that they surrendered and they continued I’d say yes, but as it stood they could have rebooted or whatever and started back up possibly. Also I’m not 100% certain on this but are the cylon raiders ‘people’ or are they ‘pets’? Thinking of the early sharon-asassin scenes where she almost kissed the thing

        3: Yes. She got mind fucked for it too. I wished they’d have pulled his head out of the bucket with him not gasping for breath or just sitting upright with her unable to force him into the bucket to begin with after he had his fun with being ‘tortured’

        4: Absolutely positively without any reasonable doubt were Lt. Thorn’s methods truly reprehensible. I really doubt they’d have bent a guy over a table with a broom stick as well as this was written to really play at an emotional level with many people on both sides of the fence.

        5: See #4

    • paulm says:

      Re: High point, and Low Point

      I also felt the scene with Adama and Sharon was a little contrived. While Adama’s speach asks some big questions about humanity, I would have liked to hear him reply to Sharon. "Even if humanity doesn’t deserve to survive, what gives you (cylons) the right to be judge, jury and executioner."

      Why do you find that contrived? Adama had one question he needed answering about himself.

      There was no point (and given a major offensive being organised no time) in Adama idly debating Cylon morality with Sharon over coffee. It would have been a pointless distraction to the issue he was struggling with.

      • J_W_W says:

        Re: High point, and Low Point

        I also felt the scene with Adama and Sharon was a little contrived. While Adama’s speach asks some big questions about humanity, I would have liked to hear him reply to Sharon. "Even if humanity doesn’t deserve to survive, what gives you (cylons) the right to be judge, jury and executioner."

        Why do you find that contrived? Adama had one question he needed answering about himself.

        There was no point (and given a major offensive being organised no time) in Adama idly debating Cylon morality with Sharon over coffee. It would have been a pointless distraction to the issue he was struggling with.

        The scene just felt a little flat to me. I mean, his plan was essentially Sharon’s plan modified to ensure the kill. He was using a cylon tactic against another human. At that point I don’t know if the person to ask if your doing the right thing is the person who planned _your_ assination (I know its the other boomer, but still).

        BTW: There is another interesting thought here. If the resurrection ship has been following them for this long, the first boomer should have been resurrected. Where is she? The same goes for Leoben. But that calls into question another writing method. We’re seeing Leoben and Boomer die and feeling for them as if they are human, seeing them resurrected would certainly change the way these characters are evoking our sympathy.

        • Jethro says:

          Re: High point, and Low Point

          He was using a cylon tactic

          Cylon tactic? Julius Caesar would disagree! (:

        • nkuzmik says:

          Re: High point, and Low Point

          w its the other boomer, but still).
          BTW: There is another interesting thought here. If the resurrection ship has been following them for this long, the first boomer should have been resurrected. Where is she? The same goes for Leoben. But that calls into question another writing method. We’re seeing Leoben and Boomer die and feeling for them as if they are human, seeing them resurrected would certainly change the way these characters are evoking our sympathy.

          Should we see Leoben again, I’ll be thinking, "Not him again!" But the question is, if Boomer-G came back online… what part of her came back? The reletively innocent Raptor pilot, or the Commander shooting sleeper agent?

          And on that note… Even if her "cover" personality came back, she might be holding a grudge.
          Might lead to some interesting, if off-color comments.

  6. Dave says:

    Edward James Olmos is a pimp
    If you listen to the podcast, Ron Moore points out that the kiss between the newly-minted ADMIRAL Adama and President Roslin wasn’t even scripted, it was an ad-lib by the actors.

    Thus, I assert that Olmos is a pimp. :D

    • Damien says:

      Re: Edward James Olmos is a pimp

      If you listen to the podcast, Ron Moore points out that the kiss between the newly-minted ADMIRAL Adama and President Roslin wasn’t even scripted, it was an ad-lib by the actors.

      I was actually waiting for a moment like that to happen and I’m glad it did. It has been fairly evident for a while that, although at times they disagree, they have grown to care for each other.

      Damien

  7. Radish03 says:

    On the battle…
    The only problem I have with this episode is that the battle seemed to go far too easily for the Colonials. They were attacking the Cylons’ most important ship, guarded by two Base Stars. All of the Vipers were taking on the Resurrection Ship, leaving two Battlestars against two Base Stars and the countless cylon fighers that would undoubtedly be on the Base Stars. I was under the impression that it was difficult for Galactica to go up against just one Base Star, hence the reason they jumped away from Kobol when one showed up in Kobol’s Last Gleaming. Is Pegasus just that much more advaced? I’m having a bit of trouble buying that it was such a cake walk to destroy the cylons’ most important ship.

    • Eldhrin says:

      Re: On the battle…
      There’s been some talk about how obsolete Galactica is in the miniseries… Pegasus looks far more advanced inside and out – better facilities, better displays, sleeker exterior… I think she might have been what made all the difference.

      Then, too, the risk was worth the reward of this target.

      • Dark Nexus says:

        Re: On the battle…

        There’s been some talk about how obsolete Galactica is in the miniseries… Pegasus looks far more advanced inside and out – better facilities, better displays, sleeker exterior… I think she might have been what made all the difference.

        Then, too, the risk was worth the reward of this target.

        Don’t forget the lack of a civvy fleet to protect. Galactica could focus fire on the enemy, instead of having to also watch for one slipping by to attack the fleet.

    • nkuzmik says:

      Re: On the battle…

      The only problem I have with this episode is that the battle seemed to go far too easily for the Colonials. They were attacking the Cylons’ most important ship, guarded by two Base Stars. All of the Vipers were taking on the Resurrection Ship, leaving two Battlestars against two Base Stars and the countless cylon fighers that would undoubtedly be on the Base Stars. I was under the impression that it was difficult for Galactica to go up against just one Base Star, hence the reason they jumped away from Kobol when one showed up in Kobol’s Last Gleaming. Is Pegasus just that much more advaced? I’m having a bit of trouble buying that it was such a cake walk to destroy the cylons’ most important ship.

      This was a split between the needs of drama, and tactics. You’ll note that both Battlestars jumped into close proximity to the first Basestar. This allowed them devote a significant portion of their weapons to offensive fire, while that Basestar was forced to split its defensive fire in 2 dirrections. This is never a good situation for the defender. Starbuck already mentioned how the Raiders would be drawn off before hand. It’s just a matter of Lather-Rinse-Repeat on the second Basestar.

      • Cerberus7 says:

        Re: On the battle…
        I was having Homeworld flashbacks. Draw off the light escorts, send in the heavy cruisers to take out the big targets one at a time, and mop up the leftovers. It works every single time against an AI opponent.

        • J_W_W says:

          Re: On the battle…

          I was having Homeworld flashbacks. Draw off the light escorts, send in the heavy cruisers to take out the big targets one at a time, and mop up the leftovers. It works every single time against an AI opponent.

          Man that was one amazing game. I actually think that game would make a much better movie than something like DOOM.

          • nkuzmik says:

            Re: On the battle…

            I was having Homeworld flashbacks. Draw off the light escorts, send in the heavy cruisers to take out the big targets one at a time, and mop up the leftovers. It works every single time against an AI opponent.

            Man that was one amazing game. I actually think that game would make a much better movie than something like DOOM.

            DOOM is actually not TOO bad, at least not if you look it allegorically.
            Granted the first half was just "monster in the dark," and poorly done at that, but the second half questions whether or not a group of people can willing section themselves off from "Soceity," in order to protect that Soceity external "Monsters" without having to become monsters themselves.

            The Martian C-24 chromosome is a metaphor for the stress of both training as well as actual combat. If not for the super-human strength and other assorted mutations, the Rock’s character could easly be diagnosed with any number of stress induced pyschotic disorders.

            The ultimate thesis of the movie is that once these individuals choose to stand apart from society and be its defenders, their fate is no longer their own. There is something INTERINSIC to each person that either turn them into a monster, like the Sarge and slaughter those they were sworn to protect, or will they become stronger for their experinces, like Reaper.

  8. joe__gee says:

    I feel like I must have watched a different episode …
    This episode left me feeling flat, so I rewatched it before I finally posted to this forum. There is nothing, nothing in particular that I find fault with.

    I agree that the battle scenes were stunning, although the edit between the Boomer / Adama session and the battle was jarring. It bothered me that we went through the pre-battle briefing regarding the damaged civillian ship ploy, and the whole dance had been rehearsed in front of us, but we weren’t even given seconds-long snippets, just cannons firing into base stars that had already been engaged. I saw some potential questions there. Civilian ships? Which ships? In the past the fleet’s civilians have been highly expressive when they were expected to undertake significant risk. Was Adama starting to become callous towards his fleet?

    I too thought Sackoff played Starbuck flawlessly, and I think Six’s actress must have been taking acting lessons on hiatus, because she has significantly improved her skills. That having been said, I think Starbuck sweated too much, and looked too uncomfortable when she was returning from the battle. Had I been crew I would have looked at her and probably asked if she was ill or had been injured. If we could see her unholster her gun going onto the command deck, why didn’t Pegasus’ trained, intimidated, and probably hand-picked by Cain guards notice it, combined with Starbuck’s edginess and profuse sweating? I am used to more subtlty by this show’s director.

    How did Six get into Cain’s quarters un-noticed, and how did Baltar get her off an unfriendly battlestar? As other have noted, that was terribly easy. I am used to better writing by this show’s writers.

    I was also a bit surprised by Apollo’s sudden suicidal bent. I am assuming he was so deeply disillusioned by Rosyln’s use of assassination that it somehow dashed his last hope for the future of humanity? We haven’t had any other clues leading up to this suicide attempt that Apollo was feeling blue. Isn’t this kind of sudden for a show that tends to leave clues about future episodes several episodes in advance?

    Maybe it’s just that — for my personal reasons — Roslyn’s losing battle with breast cancer is hitting home, and because this probably the most realistic portrayal of cancer I have ever seen (in this area, kudos to the writers, and to Mary MacDonnell), and as she comes closer to her death it becomes more difficult for me to watch these episodes. I dunno, that’s highly possible.

    On the other hand, there were several points in this episode where I really felt cheated. Although time constraints might have been the reason for the omissions I mention, I’m not certain there wouldn’t have been equally superfluous things that could have been left to our imagination. What did the Chief and Helo beating contribute to this episode, other than reinforce that Cain has some nasty people on her crew?

    I just wasn’t as taken with this episode as I have been with others. I thought it was certainly good, better for me than anything else on American TV, but for me it was just too convenient to let Starbuck, and by proxy Adama and the President off the hook, while still having their bloody intent fulfilled.

    Bye bye Admiral Cain, we hardly knew ye. In the end you were nothing but a red shirt with slightly better lines.

    -Joe

    • nkuzmik says:

      Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …
      In the interest of brevity I’ll be quick. Imagine that, me… brief.

      Joe commented on an improvement in Tricia Helfer’s acting. I’ve seen a lot of critizisim(sp) on this forum of actors and actresses having limited range, stiff performances, wooden personas, etc. Tom Welling on Smallville, and David Boreaniz on Angel are two the come to mind.

      Please consider if the character being played is emotionally expressive or not before critizing the actor being stiff.

      • TomSwiss says:

        Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …

        Please consider if the character being played is emotionally expressive or not before critizing the actor being stiff.

        Agreed. I wasn’t impressed by Helfer at all until the ep where she has it out with Baltar, telling him she’s just a delusion he’s having. That was good work, and made me realize that Six-in-Baltars-Head is (usually) a one-note character.

      • J_W_W says:

        Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …

        In the interest of brevity I’ll be quick. Imagine that, me… brief.

        Joe commented on an improvement in Tricia Helfer’s acting. I’ve seen a lot of critizisim(sp) on this forum of actors and actresses having limited range, stiff performances, wooden personas, etc. Tom Welling on Smallville, and David Boreaniz on Angel are two the come to mind.

        Please consider if the character being played is emotionally expressive or not before critizing the actor being stiff.

        You’ve definately got a point. Everytime any of these actors gets a script that requires a broader range of emotion from them, they generally come through. It may just be that the characters they play 90% of the time have such a limited range. I can’t think of much else Helfer could bring to the "Six in Baltar’s head role". But the Gina part required an enourmous range of emotion.

      • joe__gee says:

        Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …

        In the interest of brevity I’ll be quick. Imagine that, me… brief.

        Joe commented on an improvement in Tricia Helfer’s acting. I’ve seen a lot of critizisim(sp) on this forum of actors and actresses having limited range, stiff performances, wooden personas, etc. Tom Welling on Smallville, and David Boreaniz on Angel are two the come to mind.

        Please consider if the character being played is emotionally expressive or not before critizing the actor being stiff.

        You have a good point. It’s difficult to say whether an actor is skilled, con or pro, with only a one note character upon which to base their performance. I didn’t believe Tricia Helfer was an awful actor, and I don’t believe I said that, but I re-watched the miniseries after Boomer’s talk with Adama, and I do feel that she is really improving her craft.

        That’s not a bad thing, not at all. Katie Sackoff is another professional who we’ve watched grow in her craft. Last year, in the episode where Starbuck hollowed out the Cylon fighter and flew it back home someone commented that she wasn’t very convincing in her scenes where she was trying to express stress/fear (the viper falling through the atmosphere). I found her performance in this episode to have much, much greater nuance, and what I feel they did wrong with Starbuck was not due to the actor, rather to the director who went out of his way using makeup, props, and editing instead of trusting the performance of his excellent actor to convey the tension of the scene.

        Katie was such a good actor that I felt the audience didn’t need sweat, or fidgeting, to convince me that Starbuck was under a LOT of stress. :)

        -Joe

    • syagrius says:

      Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …
      Responses will need to be spoiler proofed in black:

      In regards to Apollo’s suicide: there is a difference between actively trying to kill yourself and being passive about saving yourself. I think Apollo was just choosing not to fight for his life. If he wanted to kill himself he could have tried to remove his helmet. From the writer’s point of view I think the whole scene was a mess because I am sure military space suits would have multiple patch kits available attached to the suit. On top of that they should be compartmentalized with pressure cuffs between sections to isolate an arm or leg that springs a leak as in this situation.

      Ignoring that technical deficiency, the scene shows us that Apollo was deeply conflicted. He was happy to oppose the assasination when he thought it was Adama’s idea. When he found out it was the President’s idea it crushed him. Despite this he swore an oath to help Starbuck but he still thinks that the assasination is wrong (and it is because it would set a bad precedent even if it was the only way to get rid of the Admiral). If I were him I would be in total despair: if he did not help in the assasination he would be betraying the President and Starbuck and probably condeming humanity to an unending military dictatorship. If he did assist in the assasination he would condem humanity to an unending cycle of civil war and byzantine power struggles leaving the fleet weaker and weaker until the remnant is finally wiped out by the cylons (see the actual Byzantium for reference).

      As far as Six is concerned, previously, the one on Galatica (the one everyone could see) appeared and disappeared in a mysterious way that was never really explained. We are left with the impression that she came out of Baltar’s head and then returned there since the one in Baltar’s head was missing during the same period of time that the real one was walking around Galatica. It is fun only because it leaves us guessing. If it turns out to be reality I will be dissapointed.

      If Six can enter and leave Baltar’s head then maybe the safe place for the Pegasu Six is Baltar’s chip. If that is the case he may have two Sixes in there now. Again this is a cheat and I hope the writers don’t go there.

      The alternative is that the Six(es) can somehow use some kind of Jedi Mind Trick to walk onto and off battlestars. Such a trick would let her enter the Admiral’s quarters and then escape. This also is a bit deus ex mechina and I don’t like it. It needs to be explained.

      Speaking of Six and the assasination, you can tell in the teaser that the hand holding the gun to the Admiral’s head is a woman’s and you are supposed to think it is Starbuck’s but if you look closely you can see red marks around the writsts. This clues you in that it is Six’s hand. You know before the episode starts that Starbuck doesn’t get to point a gun at the Admiral. You are only left to guess how Six gets the opportunity (something the writers don’t really answer).

      I am hoping that there are good explanations for Six’s actions. Maybe they just edited out the details to fit things into the epsiode. They may show details of Six’s escape and the maybe more scenes from the battle in the future from various character’s points of view in flash back. That would make some interesting and exciting action sequences that could be spliced into boring shots of Six hiding and wating for Baltar to bring her food.

      despite all this my conclusion is: good episode.

      • Timeshredder says:

        Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …
        Well, up here in the great white north, we finally got to see the start of Season 2. I look forward to catching up with your discussion in a few months.

        It’s looking great, though.

      • Cunning_Linguist says:

        Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …


        If Six can enter and leave Baltar’s head then maybe the safe place for the
        Pegasu Six is Baltar’s chip. If that is the case he may have two Sixes in there
        now. Again this is a cheat and I hope the writers don’t go there.

        I actually do hope they go there (I just hope they can come up with a good
        explanation for how it happens). I just think that having the two in
        his head would give the writers a chance to write an awesome script for one
        of those "devil & angel on the shoulders" kind of episodes (assuming, of
        course, that one could consider "Gina" the angel and Six the devil).

        Then again, I may just be too drunk to appreciate the consequences of that
        actually happening…

      • joe__gee says:

        Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …
        Spoilerific mouseover magic follows:

        In regards to Apollo’s suicide: there is a difference between actively trying to kill yourself and being passive about saving yourself.

        I guess before this I never saw Apollo as being a quitter. Your explanation makes sense. On the other hand, if he is this easily taken in by ennui how did he ever get to his rank?

        Speaking of Six and the assasination, you can tell in the teaser that the hand holding the gun to the Admiral’s head is a woman’s and you are supposed to think it is Starbuck’s but if you look closely you can see red marks around the writsts. This clues you in that it is Six’s hand. You know before the episode starts that Starbuck doesn’t get to point a gun at the Admiral. You are only left to guess how Six gets the opportunity (something the writers don’t really answer).

        One of the reasons this site rules so much — folks in here had already figured out the identity of the shooter before the episode aired. :)

        despite all this my conclusion is: good episode.

        Agreed. I have yet to see a bad episode of BSG. :)

        -Joe

        • Pii says:

          Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …

          Spoilerific mouseover magic follows:

          I guess before this I never saw Apollo as being a quitter. Your explanation makes sense. On the other hand, if he is this easily taken in by ennui how did he ever get to his rank?

          I was going to say that there’s really nothing special about his rank, but in thinking it through, I just discovered an inconsistancy.

          As a former Marine, I naturally equate rank and title to land forces… Officers run: 2nd Lieutenant, 1st Lt, Captain, Major, Lt. Colonel, Colonel, and then through the General ranks (Brig Gen, Maj Gen, Lt Gen, and General).

          The BSG line officers seem to follow Naval ranks… Ensign, Lieutenant (Junior Grade), Lieutenant, Lt. Commander, Commander, Captain, and the then Admiral ranks.

          The Pilots seem to be following the rank structure of typical land forces though, so "Captain Apollo" is an O-3 (An equivalent of a Naval Full Lieutenant).

          If Apollo (or the newly promoted Captain Thrace) were a Captain in Naval terms, they’d each outrank Tighe, and/or Adama (until he was promoted to Admiral).

          Anyway, my original thought was that being an O-3 is no exceptional rank for Apollo. It is unusual that an O-3 would serve in the billet of CAG (Commander, Air Group). Generally, that’s a job for a Lt. Colonel/Commander (an O-5), or a Colonel/Captain (O-6).

          This is simply out of necessity… He’s the senior ranking pilot, and the job would naturally be his until he was relieved.

          It doesn’t hurt that his old man is the Senior officer in the fleet (prior to Cain’s appearance).

          I have a lot more to say about this episode, but not enough time to say it now…

          It was Superb…

          • nkuzmik says:

            Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …
            According to a podcast by RDM the foodchain goes:
            Officers:

            * Admiral
            * Commander
            * Colonel
            * Major
            * Captain
            * Lieutenant
            * Lieutenant (junior grade)
            * Ensign

            Enlisted:

            * Master Chief Petty Officer
            * Chief Petty Officer
            * Petty Officer (1st, 2nd Class)
            * Specialist
            * Deck Hand
            * Recruit

            Check it out by googling for "battlestar wiki" and referencing around

      • Cerberus7 says:

        Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …


        From the writer’s point of view I think the whole scene was a mess because I am sure military space suits would have multiple patch kits available attached to the suit. On top of that they should be compartmentalized with pressure cuffs between sections to isolate an arm or leg that springs a leak as in this situation.

        I thought he was reaching for one in a sleeve-pocket, and stopped when he made his decision. Good point about the compartments.

    • quantaman says:

      Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …

      This episode left me feeling flat, so I rewatched it before I finally posted to this forum. There is nothing, nothing in particular that I find fault with.

      What did the Chief and Helo beating contribute to this episode, other than reinforce that Cain has some nasty people on her crew?

      -Joe

      Actually I felt that the beating, and the subsequent intervention by the Pegasus Col. established two things: 1. The Pegasus crew is under a lot of pressure and fairly messed up (what’s going to happen with them now that Adama is admiral? and 2. The Pegasus Col., and Admiral Cain as it turns out, are both fairly decent people who are finding the situation, and their crew out of control. Note the whole execution subplot serves to highlight both how out of control the Pegasus crew is, how far Admiral Cain was willing to go to instill order, and how the Col. was attempting to mediate her draconian policies (makes him a bit easier to deal with in a post-Cain situation).

      It’s going to be interesting how Starbuck reacts after this, it’s clear that she really bonded with Admiral Cain and was hurt by Adama’s instructions to assasinate her.

      As well what will happen with Helo and the Chief? They did afterall kill a colonial officer, one who was clearly well liked by the Pegasus crew who is going to have trouble integrating.

    • babasyzygy says:

      Re: I feel like I must have watched a different episode …
      In the podcast commentary, Ronald Moore says that he doesn’t know or really
      care how Baltar got Gina off of the Pegasus, and that viewers are free to make up
      their own explanations.

      I’m growing to really like that approach to a lot issues on BSG – if it’s not
      important how something happened, don’t stress out trying to technobabble a
      solution, just say that it happened and move on.

  9. hossman says:

    Colonel Fisk
    Colonel Fisk (aka "Graham Beckel") is the guy that really stood out for me in this episode. He hadn’t really stood out in the preious episodes, but he expressiveness in this epidode — even in scenes when he didn’t really have any lines — was amazing.

    I hope we see a lot more of him in the future.

    • joe__gee says:

      Re: Colonel Fisk

      Colonel Fisk (aka "Graham Beckel") is the guy that really stood out for me in this episode. He hadn’t really stood out in the preious episodes, but he expressiveness in this epidode — even in scenes when he didn’t really have any lines — was amazing.

      I hope we see a lot more of him in the future.

      Agreed. The looks on his face as he was watching the battle unfold, knowing what was to come. He did a great job. I loved the laughter, the release of tension after his last communication with the admiral.

      -Joe

    • babasyzygy says:

      Re: Colonel Fisk

      Colonel Fisk (aka "Graham Beckel") is the guy that really stood out for
      me in this episode. He hadn’t really stood out in the preious episodes, but he
      expressiveness in this epidode — even in scenes when he didn’t really have
      any lines — was amazing.

      I hope we see a lot more of him in the future.

      We should – I bet that he’s the new Commander of the Pegasus. The other
      option would be Colonel Tigh and I think that placing him in command of the
      Pegasus would be a little bit too much of a raw power play by Adama, given
      how much personal loyalty we’ve seen on each battlestar.

      • joe__gee says:

        At Cain’s service …

        We should – I bet that he’s the new Commander of the Pegasus. The other
        option would be Colonel Tigh and I think that placing him in command of the
        Pegasus would be a little bit too much of a raw power play by Adama, given
        how much personal loyalty we’ve seen on each battlestar.

        Colonel Fisk stated "as I take command of this vessel", or something to that effect.

        -Joe

  10. Antti Helin says:

    I’ll give it a ten –
    Excellent episode (perhaps S2’s best yet), I’ll just spoiler tag the rest of the writeup:

    The opening shot with Apollo adrift in space was a clever (or perhaps hammy, not sure) hook, it made me actually concerned over how the battle will turn out. It was kind of disappointing to have him survive, because you had the build-up and all, but Apollo’s reaction to it – "I didn’t want to get rescued" – was gut-wrenching.

    I think what did it for me in this episode was the emotional response. Not only can I but laud the writers for making the emotional climax of tension start building up after a big whopping battle (my pulse was racing when Starbuck was walking down the corridor to the Pegasus’ bridge), but I also agree that the actors were perfect in pulling it off. Starbuck’s and the other Colonel’s (I haven’t put him on a name yet) mere expressions were enough to convey all the stuff that was going on.

    The kiss between Admiral Adama (Hee, I love it when good people get promoted and their ‘due’) and the President didn’t come as a surprise either, because I had seen it miles away, it was definitely building up – and it makes me feel warm and cuddly inside to find out that they adlibbed it! I guess the actor’s were more on it than the writers, and their chemistry clearly works well, you can catch it so well on this side of the screen.

    My only fear is that too much was resolved in one go (Take that, Lost!) and not enough thrown out in the open – although we DO have the whole Earth plot going on in the background, AND we do need to integrate the Pegasus to the fleet… I just hope they won’t go to the reset button and have Pegasus end up destroyed in a valiant act to protect the rest of the fleet and allow it to flee, or crap like that. Keep Pegasus!

    Now with the ***** Caine dead, let’s see a new ep. I’m giddy with excitement already – the slate is quite blank, time to stack it up again.

  11. quantaman says:

    Number 6
    No one has really brought it up yet but I like how Baltar has really reversed the power dynamic with the new Six. Up till now Six has really dominated Baltar, leading him around and manipulating him mercilessly, part of the reason people here tend to find him so annoying. This new Six by contrast is far weaker willed and Baltar is taking full advantage completely dominating and manipulating her. Just consider how he worked her for information about the resurrection ship, seduced her, and convinced her to take out Admiral Cain instead of committing suicide. As well for the first time I can remember the original Six was really thwarted wrt Baltar, not only being powerless to prevent the colonial attack but also being shunned by Baltar in favour of the new Six. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens now that Baltar has a physical subservient Six in addition to the manipulative Six in his head.

    • Cunning_Linguist says:

      Re: Number 6

      No one has really brought it up yet but I like how Baltar has really reversed the power dynamic with the new Six. Up till now Six has really dominated Baltar, leading him around and manipulating him mercilessly, part of the reason people here tend to find him so annoying. This new Six by contrast is far weaker willed and Baltar is taking full advantage completely dominating and manipulating her. Just consider how he worked her for information about the resurrection ship, seduced her, and convinced her to take out Admiral Cain instead of committing suicide. As well for the first time I can remember the original Six was really thwarted wrt Baltar, not only being powerless to prevent the colonial attack but also being shunned by Baltar in favour of the new Six. It’s going to be interesting to see what happens now that Baltar has a physical subservient Six in addition to the manipulative Six in his head.

      I hadn’t thught of that… I like the way you think.

  12. vanyel says:

    My take
    A lot of comments to wade through, so I guess I’ll add some more ;-)

    My low point was the opening: I *hate* the teaser followed by "xx hours/days earlier". It’s a cheap way to get the opening hook and you don’t need it in the middle of an ongoing story like this. Even if you do want the hook, create a real one.

    As for the appearance of Dualla at the end, according to the commentary podcast, there was a "redundant" deleted scene that wasn’t as redundant as they seemed to think that would have explained her presence.

    Regarding Gina’s miraculous escape, I don’t mind unexplained plot holes, as long as one can be reasonably expected to believe that a valid explanation is possible. I think this one pushes that limit. It’s not a completely egregious violation, but I hope they don’t do it very often.

    In answer to Forced Choice:

    1. No. As someone else said, they were reinforcements. Even more, until they are loaded with a personality, they aren’t really anything more than spare parts. So I don’t think it’s really a question of morals.

    2. That did disturb me, if this is asking about the scene I think it is. Rationally, most of the colonials really do believe they are unthinking, unfeeling machines. And a quick death is a lot better than a slow one if disabled or no way to get back to base. And they are a future threat that needs to be neutralized. But from the audience point of view, we know there’s more to the cylons, and that they really are sentient beings.

    3-5. Yes. From current news items, the consensus seems to be that torture is ineffective, and particularly so against a being that should have the ability to turn pain off. It’s just degrading to humans to partake in it.

    Regarding Olmos’s "adlib", I was surprised to hear them say in the podcast commentary that it was an adlib — they’ve been building towards it for several episodes, and that scene was built up such that not doing it would be unbelievable. Unless they reshot it to take the "adlib" into effect, I don’t think I believe the commentary.

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