Battlestar Galactica: Crossroads, Part Two

Season three ends in style (but no bang).

Cast

James Callis as Dr. Gaius Baltar
Edward James Olmos as Admiral Adama
Mary McDonnell as Laura Roslin
Jamie Bamber as Lee “Apollo” Adama
Michael Hogan as Col. Tigh
Tricia Helfer as Number 6
Grace Park as Sharon “Athena” Agathon/Boomer
Tahmoh Penikett as Helo
Aaron Douglas as Galen Tyrol
Kandyse McClure as Anastasia “Dee” Dualla
Alessandro Juliani as Felix Gaeta
Mark A. Sheppard as Romo Lampkin
Rekha Sharma as Tory Foster
Michael Trucco as Samuel T. Anders

Synopsis

Baltar’s trial concludes as the fleet reaches the next clue on the road to Earth. Unfortunately, the Cylons arrive shortly afterwards.

High Points

  • Roslin’s morning phone call
  • Lee’s rant on the witness stand
  • “Much as I hate to use a cat metaphor…”

Low Points

I can’t say I really thought any of this episode was a low point.

The Scores

Originality: Well I can’t say I didn’t see it coming, because some of it was at least suspicions, and the trailer at the end of last week’s episode gave away something extremely important, but that’s not the episode’s fault. Five out of six.

Effects: The nebula looks okay, but we’re getting a lot of this flying Vipers in the clouds these days. The shot of the entire fleet arriving at the nebula is fantastic though. Five out of six.

Story: This is a truly worthy conclusion to the season, although it leaves many new questions to be answered next season — as all good season enders should do, unless it’s the last season of course. Six out of six.

Acting: Not much to be said about this really because it’s simply too good. Six out of six.

Production: I’m very fond of the swooping camera shot of Galactica‘s command centre after a jump, and it was done utterly perfectly this week. Six out of six.

Emotional response: How could this not have an enormous emotional response? Six out of six.

Overall: Everything we could have expected. Six out of six.

Crossroads, Part Two is a fine old way to end the third season of the best show on television. Forty out of forty-two.

58 replies on “Battlestar Galactica: Crossroads, Part Two”

  1. Timeshredder says:

    We lay back and observe the constellations
    I had a whole list of theories as to why the four might not actually be Cylons, but the interview linked earlier sort of blows those out of the water. Of course, we still do not know about Starbuck.

    People elsewhere are already playing the "lyric interpretation" game for "All Along the Watchtower." Who is the joker? Who is the thief? Are Apollo and Starbuck the "two riders?"

    Thanks the gods they didn’t use "American Pie" instead.

    I think we’re looking at an intense final season or a monumental shark-jump, depending on how they handle the revelations in this episode.

    I hope for the former.

    • jayhawk88 says:

      Re: We lay back and observe the constellations

      I think we’re looking at an intense final season or a monumental shark-jump, depending on how they handle the revelations in this episode.

      I hope for the former.

      I’m a believer. Perhaps I haven’t been paying close enough attention (or I’m just dense) and evidently didn’t see the "Coming next week" from last week, but the revelation just blew me out of the water. Their choice of who was a Cylon was particularly interesting to me. Each member had a clear and obvious position of power within the fleet; Tigh the second in command, Tyrol the chief engineer, Foster the Presidents advisor, and most intriguing Anders, who until recently was with Starbuck. We’ve seen now that Starbuck may hold the key to finding Earth so being close to her is most definitely a "position of power". These sleepers have presumably been in human society for a very long time, years, so it would have been impossible for the Cylons to target specific people/positions. Do the sleepers have built in programming that compel them to seek out positions and people of importance? If so, do the Cylons know/have some way of sensing Starbuck’s importance? It just seems that it cannot be mere coincidence that all these sleepers find themselves in such key roles in the fleet.

      • apetrovic says:

        Re: We lay back and observe the constellations

        and most intriguing Anders, who until recently was with Starbuck.

        Anders isn’t just "Mr Starbuck". He was a someone like, say, Michael Jordan back on Caprica, and an actuall war hero. He is probably very influental.

      • quantaman says:

        Re: We lay back and observe the constellations

        I think we’re looking at an intense final season or a monumental shark-jump, depending on how they handle the revelations in this episode.

        I hope for the former.

        I’m a believer. Perhaps I haven’t been paying close enough attention (or I’m just dense) and evidently didn’t see the "Coming next week" from last week, but the revelation just blew me out of the water. Their choice of who was a Cylon was particularly interesting to me. Each member had a clear and obvious position of power within the fleet; Tigh the second in command, Tyrol the chief engineer, Foster the Presidents advisor, and most intriguing Anders, who until recently was with Starbuck. We’ve seen now that Starbuck may hold the key to finding Earth so being close to her is most definitely a "position of power". These sleepers have presumably been in human society for a very long time, years, so it would have been impossible for the Cylons to target specific people/positions. Do the sleepers have built in programming that compel them to seek out positions and people of importance? If so, do the Cylons know/have some way of sensing Starbuck’s importance? It just seems that it cannot be mere coincidence that all these sleepers find themselves in such key roles in the fleet.

        Just spoilering the whole thing incase anyone is dumb enough to read the discussion before watching the episode.

        I thought the choice of the 4 was interesting since with the exception of Foster they were all the most militant members of the resistance and the most consistent cylon-haters of the main cast. Foster was fairly extreme in her own right by proposing/arranging the fake ballots during the presidential elections.

        As for them all ending up in important positions I find that a little worrisome from another angle. It’s apparent that these four are one-offs, no multiple copies like the other cylons (with the exception of Tyrol they were all in very public positions and multiple copies would have been noticed VERY quickly), and I can’t really see how it could of been arranged for all of them to survive the attacks and end up with the fleet. I suppose it’s concievable since 2 were crew members on galactica, if Foster was part of the president’s original staff they could have timed the attack so she would be on board, similiarly Ander’s was conveniently in the mountains away from harm then could of had his escape arranged (note these arragements wouldn’t be done consciously since the cylons apparently don’t know their identities). Still that’s a stretch. The other options are the prophecy/massive coincidence deux ex machina, that they were somehow converted to cylons or possessed by the spirits of the final five, or that there were tons of one-off cylons in the colonies and the final five are the five that happened to survive to this point.

        As for Starbuck I suspect she’s either the last of the final five (would be the obvious explanation for her re-appearance) and if so possibly their leader, or she’s something else and the last of the five is…. someone else.

        • joe__gee says:

          Re: We lay back and observe the constellations

          It’s apparent that these four are one-offs, no multiple copies like the other cylons (with the exception of Tyrol they were all in very public positions and multiple copies would have been noticed VERY quickly), and I can’t really see how it could of been arranged for all of them to survive the attacks and end up with the fleet.

          The only thing I disagree with is your one off interpretation. I believe we see a fundamental split within Cylon society that caused some models to go in one direction (attack the colonies) and other models to go in another direction (preserve as much of humanity as possible.)

          Perhaps the numbers of the preservationists was low enough that they could not have fought a pre-emptive war, but now that the human fleet has pulled part of the Cylon fleet away from their home worlds and it’s too far for the genocidal Cylons to jump home for reinforcements, these friendly Cylons can now act.

          I’d still bet that every DRADIS base star contact we saw in this episode turns out to be full of Tyrels, Anders, Starbucks, Tories, and Tighs. :)

          As for arranging these four to be in the right place at the right time, we have to remember the Eye of Jupiter on the algae planet. Someone knows what’s going to happen.

          -Joe

          • quantaman says:

            Re: We lay back and observe the constellations
            Good point about these base stars being from a different group of Cylons than the Cylons we’ve been seeing so far. This would make the technology required for the power outage, required to make sure the humans didn’t jump the moment they saw the base stars, possible. If the old Cylons had it they certainly would have used it to kill the fleet any number of times, but new Cylons could have some tricks we haven’t seen.

    • babasyzygy says:

      Re: We lay back and observe the constellations

      People elsewhere are already playing the "lyric interpretation" game for "All Along the Watchtower." Who is the joker? Who is the thief? Are Apollo and Starbuck the "two riders?"

      All Along the Watchtower is a song about the crucifiction of Jesus and the Parable of the Tenant. It’s not supposed to be about the BSG characters, it’s a religious/archetypical meme, talking about what happens when people abuse their stewardship.

      "All of this happened before, all of this will happen again."

  2. babasyzygy says:

    My theory
    I posted this on the other BSG thread here, just before this was posted but it’s more apropriate here:

    I might as well throw my theory into the ring.

    OK, so Tigh, etc., are definitely Cylons, but a different kind. I put a high probability on Starbuck being the same kind of Cylon.

    "All this has happened before, all this will happen again."

    We know that the "overt seven," Six, Leoben, Boomer/Athena, Simon, D’Anna, Cavil, and Doral, are descended from the 40-50 year old "tin can" rebellion. If *they* don’t know who the other "final five" are, then those 5 could not have come from the same generation. Therefore, they come from something that happened before. This fits with us knowing that Tigh is old enough to have fought in the "tin can rebellion."

    I think the exodus from Kobol happened because the humans of that time made Cylons, and they rebelled, and wiped out life on Kobol. The humans of that time fled, founding the Colonies. The Cylons of that time made peace with the idea of the humans surviving, and placed some of their number with the colonies to breed with humans – perhaps their progenitors fell in love with humans just like Athena did. "Cylonhood" is dominant in hybrids, and Tigh, etc., are the descendants of those Cylons.

    Where did the rest of the Cylons of that time go? I think, Earth. I think Earth is either a Cylon civilization, or a civilization where Cylons and humans peacefully coexist.

    That brings us to, who the heck are the Lords of Kobol, who seem to coexist with the Cylon’s one God (according to one of the Oracles)? I think they are Cylon models (or hybrids) who took responsibility for each of the colonies. Kara isn’t just strongly drawn to Artemis (or perhaps Aurora, whose figurine the Oracle gave her), she’s her direct descendent. That’s why not-Leoben told her in her hallucination/projection not to fear death. It was very literal – Starbuck died when her ship blew, and she resurrected in an Earth resurrection ship. No big deal.

    I think that "All Along the Watchtower" was representative more of Jungian archetype than it was of literally the song that Dylan wrote in some distant past. The song itself is about Jesus being crucifed and the Parable of the Tenants, and I think it’s used in that sense. It’s a religious meme.

    Oh well. At least we will have 2 hours of Cain and the Battlestar Pegasus between now and 2008 to keep us entertained.

    • Timeshredder says:

      Re: My theory

      There’s also an hypothesis being tossed around the ‘net that Starbuck’s mother was #5, though I can find no really good evidence for this (and it would mean we have three hybrids).

    • joe__gee says:

      Re: My theory

      I might as well throw my theory into the ring.

      An excellent theory it is!

      :)

      -Joe G.

  3. Kaki says:

    Rolling the ball…
    1. Ok.. two hybrid kids. (I’m hoping Cally stays true to the cylon-hating nut part her character and offs the new one partpartum-mom-style when she learns. Along with a gun to hubby in the night.)

    2. New (old?) Cylons. I call them team2 (or the Tylon crew), cause we don’t know the relationship to the Cylons we have all come to know and love/hate. For instance, is it copies of the team1 Cylons in the attacking fleet? Or copies of team2 Cylons? I assumed team1 at first. After some thought, I’m not sure. Another for instance, Six said she felt she had to protect Hera with her life. Was she taking Hera in the vision to the five to protect her, or were the ominous looking five (black flash cut) who she needs to protect them from?

    3. Next up, a theory on #3’s "I’m sorry, I didn’t know" during her vision. Sure Tigh is missing an eye, but (drum roll for my theory…) she advocated killing Sam when trapped under the rubble with him and Six on Caprica.

    4. I find it amusing that one of the things that kept Tigh being Tigh through the transition, pulling him back to some measure of humanity (instead of sabotage spree) seems to be that he killed his own wife for his sense of justice.

    5. Several of the four have been in more powerful positions than they currently are. Heck, Tigh was commander of the fleet before. My bets are working diametrically opposed to team1 Cylon goals. The old-Cylons from some previous "cycle of time" or civilization of the gods or whatever.

    6. As for low points… Lee’s speech. It really was, but could have been fixed with one line about how Colonial Law allows the witness to jabber on as long as they want. Heck the Pres badgered a lawyer while on the stand. I thought it was a one off, but maybe it is their law system.

    6b) Low point. Reciting the lyrics while they "came to the realization". That was cheesey. Really.

    6c) High point. Baltar and his little box. "Wait, wait!! Before you go…. what about me?" And Gaeta on the stand. Gaeta is my favorite human now. He wins by default. Also the "butterfingers" comment.

    7) Starbuck should have stayed dead till next season. So much for the show’s balls.

    Ummm…

    • quantaman says:

      Re: Rolling the ball…

      7) Starbuck should have stayed dead till next season. So much for the show’s balls.

      I disagree. Part of the purpose of the season finale is to resolve the direction of the current season and set the direction for the new season so some anticipation of that storyline can build. If we finished before seeing Starbuck then we don’t really have a transition, sure we know about some of the five but the cylons themselves are the same badguys and the fleet is still kind of wandering (but possibly on the verge of a big battle or something). Seeing Starbuck tells us first that the cylons are no longer in pure genocide or conquer mode, and second that their now going straight for Eath and the final five and Starbuck prophecy storylines have to move forward.

    • jesusX says:

      Re: Rolling the ball…

      6. As for low points… Lee’s speech. It really was, but could have been fixed with one line about how Colonial Law allows the witness to jabber on as long as they want. Heck the Pres badgered a lawyer while on the stand. I thought it was a one off, but maybe it is their law system.

      The Prosecution objected (Exception!) several times before. A couple judges said they wanted to hear Lee out, even Adama. So, I think that’s why, it was settled before he really got into it. And when he was done, the prosecutor renewed her objection.

      • Kaki says:

        Re: Rolling the ball…

        The Prosecution objected (Exception!) several times before. A couple judges said they wanted to hear Lee out, even Adama. So, I think that’s why, it was settled before he really got into it. And when he was done, the prosecutor renewed her objection.

        True, I recall her objecting about one member of the defense team calling another. But somewhere in that long speech she should have objected again (once or twice) if only to break Lee’s train of thought. "Objection, this isn’t testimony, defense isn’t even asking questions, they have simply called themselves to the stand in order to make a speech that should be in the closing arguments. If this continues I demand that I be allowed to call my assistant to the stand!" As it was, she didn’t even cross-examine him. "Mr Adama, when this blanket pardon was issued for everyone in the fleet, where was Gaius Baltar?" "With the Cylon fleet! My, my, that is a bit distressing. Have you ever spoken to him about what he did all that time with them, what aid he may have given them?" That gal was a terrible lawyer.

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: Rolling the ball…
          Lee’s speech was awful, and you bring up all the problems it presented to the story. Thank you.

          • Kaki says:

            Re: Rolling the ball…

            Lee’s speech was awful, and you bring up all the problems it presented to the story. Thank you.

            Thanks. I was beginning to wonder if being critical wasn’t friendly anymore.

        • J_W_W says:

          Re: Rolling the ball…

          That gal was a terrible lawyer.

          I couldn’t agree more either. While I agreed with what Lee said, I can’t believe she was so thoroughly incapable of making a better case against Baltar…

        • y42 says:

          Re: Rolling the ball…

          True, I recall her objecting about one member of the defense team calling another. But somewhere in that long speech she should have objected again

          And she would have been found in contempt. The judges ruled that Lee was to speak his mind, you either do as the judges decreed or you interrupt and distrupt the court until you get sent to detention so the judges can hear the rest of Lee’s speech without your childish atempts at thwarting their will.

  4. joe__gee says:

    Magnificent ending to this season. :)
    It’s all spoilers under here:

    I suspect we’re meeting either a breakway faction of the Cylon species, or the original Cylons, and the bad guys are the ones that trashed the colonies. In either case, the "fundamental difference" that you key in on rings true to me. I also think that finally we are meeting the Cylons who have a plan. ;)

    At the beginning of next season I suspect we’re going to see ten or fifteen friendly base ships that at first appear to be a great blessing, but now with Baltar back in hiding there will be a division among the humans, one side with the Cylons who trashed the colonies, the other side with these benevolent Cylons who placed themselves at key points in the human fleet, seemingly to be of assistance as much as possible.

    Other things that make me lean towards this: the Six that says to Baltar when he comments about five other Cylon models, "we don’t talk about that"; the entire line of Threes being boxed, that’s pretty drastic unless these Cylons have seen similar non-compliance have very negative effects on Cylon society; Leoben the Cylon mystic, acting on faith and Hyrbrid-mumblings in the belief that he has found one of the other Five; and oddly enough, the beacon with the terrible disease, I don’t think it was a human invention, I think it was the other Cylons.

    Great job keying in on Ragnar station radiation resistance! I also think the other Cylons are either earlier models (witness Tigh’s 40 years of military service, and the aging of all of the models), or a later experiment that backfired. I suspect what the Cylons discovered is that undetectable = too close to human = uncontrollable, unreliable, and ultimately their allegiance to "true" Cylon plans cannot be predicted.

    Only one out of millions or billions of Sharons acts outside of the prerogatives of her species. Only one out of millions or billions of Sixes has any independence. The Leobens are considered unusual. Only the Simons, the Cavells, and the Dorals are unwaivering. What about those other five models would lead them to be outcast, virtually erased?

    :)

    In any case, like any Cylon "gift" these Cylons will be a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey's_Paw monkey’s paw . Will the survivors be willing to pay the great price that comes with these new benevolent allies?

    I’d bet we’re going to see a BIG battle in the premier of next season, Cylon versus Cylon, with the tailing Cylons jumping in directly after these humans and the friendly Cylons completely ignoring the human fleet while they decimate their enemies.

    Or this may be completely off base. We won’t know for NINE FRACKING MONTHS, damnit. :(

    EXCELLENT JOB of killing off Katee in the credits, and obfuscating her return. THAT was a real shock. I didn’t expect to see her back until next season. :)

    Even with five more models, and almost all of them characters we said in other discussions that would be logical, or upset us, or that would be impossible — I love this show. :)


    -Joe

    P.S. I say we have seen the other five models, of which Starbuck is one, because the description of this episode on scifi.com says this episode reveals the final five. The only candidate for number five that I’m aware of is Starbuck, although her mom being a Cylon has a ring of truth to it.

    • joe__gee says:

      Re: Magnificent ending to this season. :)
      Oh, this is a reply to another post over on the season four thread that actually better belonged in here, so I chose to wait to post it.

      -Joe

    • jesusX says:

      Re: Magnificent ending to this season. :)

      Only one out of millions or billions of Sharons acts outside of the prerogatives of her species. Only one out of millions or billions of Sixes has any independence.

      Only one Sharon was on the planet with Helo. Only one Six was on Caprica with Baltar, amongst the humans, setting up the holocaust.

      Even with Cylons, experiences make the individual.

      The Leobens are considered unusual. Only the Simons, the Cavells, and the Dorals are unwaivering.

      We don’t know that, we haven’t seen them enough.

      • jesusX says:

        Re: Magnificent ending to this season. :)
        Grr, I screwed up the quote tags.

        Only one out of millions or billions of Sharons acts outside of the prerogatives of her species. Only one out of millions or billions of Sixes has any independence.

        Only one Sharon was on the planet with Helo. Only one Six was on Caprica with Baltar, amongst the humans, setting up the holocaust.

        Even with Cylons, experiences make the individual.

        The Leobens are considered unusual. Only the Simons, the Cavells, and the Dorals are unwaivering.

        We don’t know that, we haven’t seen them enough.

        • joe__gee says:

          Re: Magnificent ending to this season. :)

          Only one Sharon was on the planet with Helo. Only one Six was on Caprica with Baltar, amongst the humans, setting up the holocaust.

          Athena shot another Eight during the escape from Caprica. There were many Eights on Caprica.

          Even with Cylons, experiences make the individual.

          Only to a point. Boomer had very human experiences and memories, but when she was mugged by her sisters in the love-a-thon on the base star she went home and shot Adama in the gut.

          Not very individualistic.

          The Leobens are considered unusual. Only the Simons, the Cavells, and the Dorals are unwaivering.

          We don’t know that, we haven’t seen them enough.

          I’ll give you this, but considering Simons and Dorals have been little more than moving furniture so far in the series, and we haven’t seen any of them making any dissenting noises, knowing that characterization and character development involve revelation, allusion, and foreshadowing I suspect my conclusion is relatively safe.

          Does this make sense? %)

          -Joe

          • FarmerBob says:

            Re: Magnificent ending to this season. :)

            Only one Sharon was on the planet with Helo. Only one Six was on Caprica with Baltar, amongst the humans, setting up the holocaust.

            Athena shot another Eight during the escape from Caprica. There were many Eights on Caprica.

            I would just like to point out that he is using a different definition of "with" than you are.

            Also, Boomer was preprogrammed to do that, and afterwards was shown the worst of what humans can do to each other, which would cause almost anyone psychological damage.

            • joe__gee says:

              Re: Magnificent ending to this season. :)

              I would just like to point out that he is using a different definition of "with" than you are.

              Also, Boomer was preprogrammed to do that, and afterwards was shown the worst of what humans can do to each other, which would cause almost anyone psychological damage.

              Preprogramming does not leave a lot of room for individuality. :)

              -Joe

              • jesusX says:

                Re: Magnificent ending to this season. :)

                Preprogramming does not leave a lot of room for individuality. :)

                Sure it does. We’re preprogrammed to look for a mate, have children, protect ourselves, our family, our assets, etc. But we’re quite individual.

    • jayhawk88 says:

      Re: Magnificent ending to this season. :)

      At the beginning of next season I suspect we’re going to see ten or fifteen friendly base ships…

      Interesting point. The base ships jump in at the end of the episode but do we get any indication that they’re hostile, aside from everyone on Galactica assuming the worst? Perhaps these ships belong to "good" Cylons who detected the awakening of the Four?

  5. Ogre says:

    Something I thought of….
    Could it be possible that the reason the original seven didn’t know the faces of the final five is beacuse they didn’t exist yet? And maybe while on New Caprica, the origianl human versions of the Five had their "conciuossness" downloaded into a Skin Job version 2.0 (a version which is virtually indistinguishable from a real human being?).

    Just a thought thrown out for people to shoot holes in. :)

  6. Cerberus7 says:

    Spoileriffic junkity junk
    So, I was one who thought I’d bail on this series if Starbuck turned out to be a cylon. Yet, the way they played this ep out, I’m not sure if that’s the case, and even if it is, it’s not so bad the way they’re moving this story forward. I will stay with it, ’cause darn it, they just keep doing this stuff so well!

  7. J_W_W says:

    Great episode, but…..
    I have to admit this was a great episode. Compelling glued to the set television. But….

    I really fear for the repercussions of what they’ve done here. In the earlier posting about season 4 Moore admitted that he came up with who the cylons should be after the fact and has not had this in mind the whole time. This really bugs me.

    While those "chosen" to be cylons is shocking, there are real plot holes and issues created by this that the show must resolve.

    First off is the second hybrid. They totally lose the importance of Hera in the audiences mind with _two_ hybrids. Now I do predict that because of this we will eventually see six and Baltar take Hera to the "bad" cylons and the new four will have Tyrol’s child.

    Even bigger though in my mind is that fact that Tigh has been a cylon for 40 years!!!! I thought the cylons rebelled and then the cylons evolved. With Tigh’s revelation they must have done both at the same time!!! Why? Why would the first humanoid cylon been used as a plant for the _next_ war? WTF?? There is no logic to this other than to tweak the audience by having the new (or rather very old) cylons be key people. The backstory for Tigh better be something else because right now his being a cylon makes no sense at all.

    As for Anders, Tigh, and Tyrol being the leaders of the resistance _and_ being cylon, that bothers me a lot too. So are we to believe that all the other humans are just sheep and that it really takes cylons to actually muster a true resistance? I don’t like the change that this revelation brings to the resistance and exedous episodes. Now all they need is to Make Roslin cylon and the resistance would have had no human leaders at all!! In my opinion they traded the meaning of dramatic moments from previous episodes for the drama of their revelation in this episode. We’ll have to wait and see what comes of that.

    The backstory on these four had better be good. It had better be real good. When you think on it they have some very large plot holes to fill in now.

    Oh, and Starbuck had damn well better not be the fifth cylon. I still hold that I will quit watching the show if she is. I still hope that the ship of light plays into her finding Earth and her reappearance.

    As for who the fifth is: Did anyone catch the group that escorted Baltar out putting what really looks like a robe over his head? A robe much like we’ve seen on the final five. Also the real playing of the music starts in that scene with Baltar in the hallway, looking very confused…..

    On another note I loved how they worked in the music this episode. Very nice touch. And the fade in and fade out effects shot was great too.

    • joe__gee says:

      Re: Great episode, but…..

      As for Anders, Tigh, and Tyrol being the leaders of the resistance _and_ being cylon, that bothers me a lot too. So are we to believe that all the other humans are just sheep and that it really takes cylons to actually muster a true resistance? I don’t like the change that this revelation brings to the resistance and exedous episodes. Now all they need is to Make Roslin cylon and the resistance would have had no human leaders at all!! In my opinion they traded the meaning of dramatic moments from previous episodes for the drama of their revelation in this episode. We’ll have to wait and see what comes of that.

      The backstory on these four had better be good. It had better be real good. When you think on it they have some very large plot holes to fill in now.


      Think Vorlons versus the Shadows in B5. I think that’s what’s going on in the Cylon world, with an older order of Cylons, the "final five", biocompatible with humans, keeping an eye on the colonists and biding their time to strike the other seven.

      In such a universe where prophets can actually foretell the future, why not be able to place your people in advance where they can be the most help? :)

      That makes 40 year military career man Tigh the canary in the proverbial coal mine, Tyrol and Anders resistance leaders extraordinaire, Tori the friendly demon from the Pythian Scrolls, and Starbuck the Goddess of the Dawn.

      (Don’t jump, please. I like your comments in here!)

      -Joe

    • Vulch says:

      Re: Great episode, but…..

      While those "chosen" to be cylons is shocking, there are real plot holes and issues created by this that the show must resolve.

      Even bigger though in my mind is that fact that Tigh has been a cylon for 40 years!!!! I thought the cylons rebelled and then the cylons evolved. With Tigh’s revelation they must have done both at the same time!!! Why? Why would the first humanoid cylon been used as a plant for the _next_ war?

      My theory (or wild ramblings!) from elsewhere… Twelve humaniform Cylons, twelve colonies. Maybe each colony has had a Cylon from its foundation that is reborn through the generations, and the original toaster rebellion kicked off as an attempt to capture the Twelve. They grabbed seven of them and used them to produce the Seven, and the Five have been trying to work out what to do since. The reincarnation is a natural ability that the toasters have managed to adapt for the Raiders as well as the Seven.

      You can even map the Twelve onto the Roman and Greek pantheons. D’ana (Diana/Artemis) and Sharon-Athena named themselves, Tyrol is Vulcan/Hephaestus, Tigh Bacchus/Dionysus, Leoben Mercury/Hermes and so on.

      Ahem. Coat please!

      • octa says:

        Re: Great episode, but…..
        That’s a pretty cool theory and would actually tie into what we know about the colonies already.

        I hate it when writers have to pull shit out of their ass to make drastic changes in a series work.

      • Trekkie says:

        Re: Great episode, but…..
        Not sure if the theory was your original post but another one I saw had Gaius/Gaia = Earth….

        Thought that was rather interesting.

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: Great episode, but…..

          Not sure if the theory was your original post but another one I saw had Gaius/Gaia = Earth….

          Thought that was rather interesting.

          Except Gaia was feminine, I think.

          • FarmerBob says:

            Re: Great episode, but…..

            Not sure if the theory was your original post but another one I saw had Gaius/Gaia = Earth….

            Thought that was rather interesting.

            Except Gaia was feminine, I think.

            Yea. Imagining Gaius Baltar as a mother figure is….

        • Vulch says:

          Re: Great episode, but…..

          Not sure if the theory was your original post but another one I saw had Gaius/Gaia = Earth….

          Hadn’t seen that one myself, but as well as the Twelve there’s a thirteenth Cylon for Earth…

          • Timeshredder says:

            Re: Great episode, but…..

            Hadn’t seen that one myself, but as well as the Twelve there’s a thirteenth Cylon for Earth…

            For what it’s worth, Bacchus/Dionysus was added to the pantheon later, which led to there being thirteen twelve great olympians.

            Of course, these numbers turn up often in lore, and the Cylons-as-Olympians may be a non-starter.

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: Great episode, but…..

      Even bigger though in my mind is that fact that Tigh has been a cylon for 40 years!!!! I thought the cylons rebelled and then the cylons evolved. With Tigh’s revelation they must have done both at the same time!!! Why? Why would the first humanoid cylon been used as a plant for the _next_ war? WTF?? There is no logic to this other than to tweak the audience by having the new (or rather very old) cylons be key people. The backstory for Tigh better be something else because right now his being a cylon makes no sense at all.

      As much as I hate to defend this shark jump, it could be possible to replace a human Tigh with a Cylon Mk. II Tigh that had his memories up to that point. Ditto the others.

      Or, perhaps the Cylons Mk. II are humans with biological and/or cybernetic programming. It wouldn’t be unprecedented.

  8. TomSwiss says:

    WTF?!
    Ok, I haven’t sat there slack-jawed like that since I first watched the final episode of The Prisoner.

    I did call it that Tigh was a Cylon, after D’Anna’s apology to her vision. But, WTF? How could there have been humanoid Cylons back then, when the rank-and-file models were primitive tin cans?

    So our Cylon sleepers’ key is a Dylan song. WTF does this say about the relation between Kobol-humans, Cylons, and Earth? It certainly says "Earth" is our Earth, or close to it, not far distant future or past

    So Kara’s back – and so is her Viper! It would be one thing if she returned, we could say she’s a resurrected Cylon or had been rescued by them at the last second – but WTF happened to her ship, which we saw destroyed?

    I don’t know if I’ve just seen this show go unbelievably brilliant or unbelievably stupid. And I won’t know until next season, damn it!

    But Lee’s speech, the whole resolution of the Baltar plotline, was great. So I’m going to keep the faith.

    • studmuffin says:

      Re: WTF?!

      So Kara’s back – and so is her Viper! It would be one thing if she returned, we could say she’s a resurrected Cylon or had been rescued by them at the last second – but WTF happened to her ship, which we saw destroyed?

      I just rewatched the episode, and Kara’s ship was BRAND NEW – no battle damage, nothing. Shiny as could be. Makes me think that Ron Moore et al are playing with the mythos from the original series and handing the ‘Ship of Light’ correctly. Recall that the beings in the ship of light showed Galactica the way to Earth. Also, when Kara said to Leoben that he wasn’t Leoben after she ‘died’, Leoben stated that he never said he was, and therefore might not be Cylon. Perhaps, if Kara is model 5, then the beings of light live in the place between death and life that the Cylons don’t want to investigate (and are boxing up the 3’s for) but the Cylon hybrids see.

      • madpoet_one says:

        Re: WTF?!

        So Kara’s back – and so is her Viper!

        I just rewatched the episode, and Kara’s ship was BRAND NEW – no battle damage, nothing. Shiny as could be.

        I rewatched it last night and I could swear that not only did it look BRAND NEW but it also looked like an earlier Viper model. Very similar to the original series Vipers and what we saw on the hanger deck in the pilot when Galatica was being decommissioned and turned into a museum. Or maybe I am just seeing things.

        On another note, I think the Brother Cavils know far more then they are letting one. Which would make the scene where he tells Galen that he never sees him at the Cylon meetings all the more interesting and funny. Which would be very much in keeping with his characters sadistic sense of humor.

    • y42 says:

      Re: WTF?!

      So Kara’s back – and so is her Viper! It would be one thing if she returned, we could say she’s a resurrected Cylon or had been rescued by them at the last second – but WTF happened to her ship, which we saw destroyed?

      The Cylons captured the 12 colonies and all of their stockpiles of military equipment.

      We’ve seen them use Raptors, what made you think they didn’t have vipers?

  9. lunadude says:

    Starbuck’s Return?
    What if Starbuck is in Apollo’s head?

    We have seen a LOT of inner dialog with characters.

    • joe__gee says:

      Re: Starbuck’s Return?

      What if Starbuck is in Apollo’s head?

      We have seen a LOT of inner dialog with characters.

      That occured to me too. :)

      Lee confiding Dualla next season: "I SEE DEAD PEOPLE."

      -Joe

    • jesusX says:

      Re: Starbuck’s Return?

      What if Starbuck is in Apollo’s head?

      We have seen a LOT of inner dialog with characters.

      Helo: "Who’s flying Viper 3"? So, Dradis sees her too.

      • maj says:

        Re: Starbuck’s Return?

        What if Starbuck is in Apollo’s head?

        We have seen a LOT of inner dialog with characters.

        Helo: "Who’s flying Viper 3"? So, Dradis sees her too.

        Appolo: "I’m in Viper 3, I have an unknown contact, going after it" Dradis did see her, just as an unknown contact, Lee was in Viper 3

        • jesusX says:

          Re: Starbuck’s Return?

          Appolo: "I’m in Viper 3, I have an unknown contact, going after it" Dradis did see her, just as an unknown contact, Lee was in Viper 3

          Well color me silver and call me a toaster, I missed that first part. thanks. :)

  10. Jethro says:

    Couple of things
    First off, I had this strange idea that maybe the cylons attacked Caprica TO GET THE OTHER CYLONS. Since they can’t tell them from humans, and maybe they know that they can’t tell THEMSELVES from humans.

    Now, a lot of people are complaining about the Dylan song. To them I say this. It was noted that this episode would reveal the final 5 cylons, and we’ve seen four.

    Clearly, the 5th cylon model is Bob Dylan.

    • FarmerBob says:

      Re: Couple of things

      First off, I had this strange idea that maybe the cylons attacked Caprica TO GET THE OTHER CYLONS. Since they can’t tell them from humans, and maybe they know that they can’t tell THEMSELVES from humans.

      Now, a lot of people are complaining about the Dylan song. To them I say this. It was noted that this episode would reveal the final 5 cylons, and we’ve seen four.

      Clearly, the 5th cylon model is Bob Dylan.

      My question is: Should we be building a giant transmitter to beam "All Along the Watchtower" into space?

  11. vanyel says:

    Low point
    I guess I’m going to have to go listen to some Bob Dylan, as to me, the music was just random music… oh well…

    Even so, my low point was the part at the end where they said, "New episodes in 2008!" 2008?!? Overall, I thought it was a bit of a slow season, but man, give us and ending like that and then make us wait a whole year for the next part? Cruel and unfortunately not too unusual punishment.

    I was particularly disappointed in the strike episode — they’re complaining about having trouble filling up an entire season of episodes, and then they take a 2-3 episode story and wham bam over and done with, everyone’s happy. I don’t *think* so!

    Still, it’s rare and refreshing to have a show with as much depth as BG does, and man what a 180 from the fluff the original was!

    • Trekkie says:

      Re: Low point
      The 2008 thing crushed the entire episode for me. It was a great show, it really was, but it was like serving a steak dinner on a trash can lid.

      9 months, frak that. I’m so frakkin tired of this crap. Heroes just goes away for a month for no apparent reason, you’ve got other non-sci-fi shows that are solid like Rescue Me, or the new Dirt, or even Atlantis and SG1. I have *forgotten* where we are in both of those shows it’s been so long. What was it, June 2006 when they went off the air?

      I’m sick of this. This is what keeps me from watching stuff when it comes back.

      • J_W_W says:

        Re: Low point

        The 2008 thing crushed the entire episode for me. It was a great show, it really was, but it was like serving a steak dinner on a trash can lid.

        9 months, frak that. I’m so frakkin tired of this crap. Heroes just goes away for a month for no apparent reason, you’ve got other non-sci-fi shows that are solid like Rescue Me, or the new Dirt, or even Atlantis and SG1. I have *forgotten* where we are in both of those shows it’s been so long. What was it, June 2006 when they went off the air?

        I’m sick of this. This is what keeps me from watching stuff when it comes back.

        Totally agree. I think the networks have screwed up scheduling so much that its almost impossible to keep up with a show without a DVR. I just trust my Mythbox to show me when new shows are out there, but frankly, I have been surprised to see new episodes pop up when they do. For instance Smallville, I almost forget about the show when they’re in reruns, and then pop! an epsiode shows up on the DVR and its like, "oh yeah, I do still watch Smallville."

        Its getting frustrating, and now with HD they’re actually trying to get rid of DVRs and thats ridiculous…

      • dan_k says:

        Re: Low point
        I completely agree with this sentiment. I keep the last episode before a break on my TiVo as a refresher for when the season returns.

        The only thing that will save Galactica is that I am sure the DVDs will be out before next season (and with special footage of season 4 I bet).

        I can’t wait for Rescue Me to return, it seems to take an 18 month break between seasons.

  12. sjaskow says:

    BSG == Asimov’s "Nightfall"
    As I watch the episode and wonder where season 4 is going, I’m thinking that Moore is going to play it like Asimov did in Nightfall ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightfall_(Isaac_Asimov) ) and the Final Five are remnants from a previous civilization that fell due to the same mistakes, i.e. creating Toasters. If so, that makes the choice of "All Along the Watchtower" make sense since it’s alludes to repeating history.

    • Babbster says:

      Re: BSG == Asimov’s "Nightfall"

      As I watch the episode and wonder where season 4 is going, I’m thinking that Moore is going to play it like Asimov did in Nightfall ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightfall_(Isaac_Asimov) ) and the Final Five are remnants from a previous civilization that fell due to the same mistakes, i.e. creating Toasters. If so, that makes the choice of "All Along the Watchtower" make sense since it’s alludes to repeating history.

      They’ve made clear several times that "this has all happened before," so I’m right there with you. While it can be perceived as a convenient writers’ trick, it’s one that they put into place early enough that it’s hard – for me, at least – to blame them for using it.

  13. Timeshredder says:

    All Along the Watchtower
    For those who have not yet poked about on the topic.

  14. y42 says:

    Those 4 are Cylons if Starbuck is dead
    Ty was alive and fighting before the Cylons evolved into humans. He was also captive on New Caprica where the Cylons had plenty of opportunities to condition him to respond to the song as a trigger.

    Anders was gassed on the old Caprica, where he could have been chipped or conditioned or whatever it is the Cylons did to them.

    Chief was under the spell of sleeper-Boomer, she had all the opportunities to enact that part of The Plan when she wasn’t sabotaging their water supply.

    I never paid enough attention to Roselyn’s aide to tell when the Cylons programmed her to think she’s one of them, but it happened.

    And Starbuck… Starbuck ejected at the last second and was collected by the troop transport she was hunting, so she’s alive and well.

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