28 replies on “Season Four is the Final Season”

  1. joe__gee says:

    The show’s "low ratings"
    It’s still Sci Fi’s highest rated show. Shees.

    -Joe

    • Kaki says:

      Re: The show’s "low ratings"

      It’s still Sci Fi’s highest rated show. Shees.

      -Joe

      Shhh. Don’t challange the "dying show" story. Might bring up questions about schedule changes and the like.

    • BaseNeptune says:

      Re: The show’s "low ratings"

      It’s still Sci Fi’s highest rated show. Shees.

      -Joe

      The Sci-Fi channel seems to have a knack for canceling good Sci-Fi shows. Nothing they produce originally or pick up from another network lives for more than four seasons. The only apparent exemption to this rule is Stargate. It’s like they continuously flip flop in between making several mediocre shows to one or two good ones, and then back again.

      That being said, if the choice is between one 20/22 episode Season Four, or two 13 episode Seasons 4 & 5, I’ll go with the 20 episode Season 4. I loved Season 3, even though it dealt with more backstory than advancing the plot until the last episode. But seeing what Sci-Fi did to Farscape, even if they *PROMISE* they won’t do that Battlestar Galactica makes me nervous. Besides, I think RDM and crew can handle the endgame of getting to Earth correctly, and do it in one season.

      Also, they consistently raise the bar so high that I don’t see any way possible to keep it up for 3-4 more seasons. I was floored by the end of Season 2, the end to Season 3 just completely blew me away. BSG is brain crack.

  2. J_W_W says:

    Hybrid babies
    His comment about there being two hybrid babies really scares me. It almost sounds by his response that he’s really not thought that through very much at all.

    Don’t get me wrong, I actually thought the finale was a great episode, but the consequences and story issues that it does and will continue to cause are very worrisome. I’ll leave more comments on that for the review thread….

    • sjaskow says:

      Re: Hybrid babies

      His comment about there being two hybrid babies really scares me. It almost sounds by his response that he’s really not thought that through very much at all.

      Well, if the finale is to be believed, Chief and Cally’s son has to be a hybrid child. And don’t forget the Chief has been questioning whether he’s a Cylon since toward the end of Season 2. But I do agree it’s a major plot hole that they’re probably going to scramble a lot to fill.

    • octa says:

      Re: Hybrid babies
      Yeah, his response surprised me. Also, he came up with this whole last 5 cylon thing at the beginning of season 3. That tells me all of this was rushed and pure bull crap tacked on to stretch the season out.

      I wish I could wipe my memory of everything after leaving New Caprica in season 3. I’d kiss Superman to make it happen.

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: Hybrid babies

      His comment about there being two hybrid babies really scares me.

      Hello, Spoiler.

      • babasyzygy says:

        Re: Hybrid babies

        His comment about there being two hybrid babies really scares me.

        Hello, Spoiler.

        No spoiler there, if you’ve watched the finale. Tyrol’s a cylon, so his kid’s a hybrid.

        • Babbster says:

          Re: Hybrid babies

          His comment about there being two hybrid babies really scares me.

          Hello, Spoiler.

          No spoiler there, if you’ve watched the finale. Tyrol’s a cylon, so his kid’s a hybrid.

          Um, yeah, that’s the point. It’s a spoiler of the finale for those who haven’t seen it yet.

          • Kaki says:

            Re: Hybrid babies

            His comment about there being two hybrid babies really scares me.

            Hello, Spoiler.

            No spoiler there, if you’ve watched the finale. Tyrol’s a cylon, so his kid’s a hybrid.

            Um, yeah, that’s the point. It’s a spoiler of the finale for those who haven’t seen it yet.

            Look, if you want to put off seeing an episode (a huge one in terms of the show) then fine. Do it. But to put the burden of hiding information on the rest of us is just stupid, imo. If you really value your clean slate going into a show, don’t read about the topic before you watch. Simple-dimple.

            • GrimSean says:

              Spoiler Subject Title

              Look, if you want to put off seeing an episode (a huge one in terms of the show) then fine. Do it. But to put the burden of hiding information on the rest of us is just stupid, imo. If you really value your clean slate going into a show, don’t read about the topic before you watch. Simple-dimple.

              Some of us, such as myself, are Canadian, and are forced to wait a few days for the episode (I’m busy Sundays)

              Some of us, such as myself, go to the Site Stats page and read the comment titles.

              So, yeah, thanks.

              The spoiler tag is a pain, I agree (So many letters to type! I have no time for this! Other people should be as quick as me to watch the show, and abandon their puny lives to do so!), but seriously, comment titles need some thought here. "Hybrid Babies" is one step away from "The Return of the Starbuck" or "Let’s call them ‘Tylons’!"

              • J_W_W says:

                Re: Spoiler Subject Title

                Look, if you want to put off seeing an episode (a huge one in terms of the show) then fine. Do it. But to put the burden of hiding information on the rest of us is just stupid, imo. If you really value your clean slate going into a show, don’t read about the topic before you watch. Simple-dimple.

                Some of us, such as myself, are Canadian, and are forced to wait a few days for the episode (I’m busy Sundays)

                Some of us, such as myself, go to the Site Stats page and read the comment titles.

                So, yeah, thanks.

                The spoiler tag is a pain, I agree (So many letters to type! I have no time for this! Other people should be as quick as me to watch the show, and abandon their puny lives to do so!), but seriously, comment titles need some thought here. "Hybrid Babies" is one step away from "The Return of the Starbuck" or "Let’s call them ‘Tylons’!"

                I apologize. I figured that the article was so spoiler packed… The extra hybrid is mentioned directly. However, I have no idea if spoiler tags work in subject lines. I try it with the subject here (nope doesn’t work).

                Again, sorry about that.

                • GrimSean says:

                  Re: Spoiler Subject Title

                  I apologize. I figured that the article was so spoiler packed… The extra hybrid is mentioned directly. However, I have no idea if spoiler tags work in subject lines. I try it with the subject here (nope doesn’t work).

                  Again, sorry about that.

                  Don’t worry about it – I was actually more offended by the tone of Kaki’s post than the actual Hybrid Babies headline (I’d already had some bits – including that one – spoiled by an over-zealous customer at work who knew I was a fan).

                  I’ve seen it now though!

            • Babbster says:

              Dumb Thread Title

              His comment about there being two hybrid babies really scares me.

              Hello, Spoiler.

              No spoiler there, if you’ve watched the finale. Tyrol’s a cylon, so his kid’s a hybrid.

              Um, yeah, that’s the point. It’s a spoiler of the finale for those who haven’t seen it yet.

              Look, if you want to put off seeing an episode (a huge one in terms of the show) then fine. Do it. But to put the burden of hiding information on the rest of us is just stupid, imo. If you really value your clean slate going into a show, don’t read about the topic before you watch. Simple-dimple.

              a) The word "you" is inappropriate since I wasn’t complaining or assigning a burden as regards protecting ME from spoilers. I do avoid reading discussions here if I’m planning on watching/reading the subject under discussion.

              b) The cranky attitude is uncalled-for. The use of the spoiler tag has been pretty standard here for quite a while, and the reviews posted here take pains not to include spoilers. Thus, posting "naked" spoilers for brand-new shows (and a show less than a week old qualifies) is considered bad form on this site. Whether you like it or not seems beside the point since the tradition has been well established.

              c) I think GrimSean covered everything else nicely. I would specifically echo the sentiment (expressed sarcastically) that using the spoiler tag is easy, and making thread titles that don’t contain spoilers is similarly simple. There’s nothing noble about refusing to do so (though I can certainly understand the occasional accident) – indeed, it’s just disrespectful.

              • babasyzygy says:

                Re: Dumb Thread Title

                b) The cranky attitude is uncalled-for. The use of the spoiler tag has been pretty standard here for quite a while,

                Only by some users. Others of us despise its use – there isn’t a "community standard," as you’re trying to imply.

                • GrimSean says:

                  Re: Dumb Thread Title

                  b) The cranky attitude is uncalled-for. The use of the spoiler tag has been pretty standard here for quite a while,

                  Only by some users. Others of us despise its use – there isn’t a "community standard," as you’re trying to imply.

                  I think it’s only common courtesy to spoiler tag something that’s aired within the last few weeks, and I don’t understand why people have such a problem with putting [spoiler][/spoiler] around it – it’s not like we have to <font color=black></font> any more.

                  The only reason I got dragged in here was because of the Hybrid Babies thing, and as I stated above I had already had that semi-spoiled or me. I don’t read comments on reviews of shows I haven’t watched yet (though I do tend to skip to the score), but I still spoiler tag stuff that I think would ruin others’ enjoyment of the show as a common courtesy, and I had thought that was how most people here operated.

                  Which, I think, is my long, roundabout way of saying that yes, Virginia, there is a "community standard" and spoiler tags aren’t all that hard to use.

                • y42 says:

                  Re: Dumb Thread Title

                  b) The cranky attitude is uncalled-for. The use of the spoiler tag has been pretty standard here for quite a while,

                  Only by some users. Others of us despise its use – there isn’t a "community standard," as you’re trying to imply.

                  And some people will spit on your shoes, there isn’t a "community" standard for not being a jerk, I suppose.

          • babasyzygy says:

            Re: Hybrid babies

            His comment about there being two hybrid babies really scares me.

            Hello, Spoiler.

            No spoiler there, if you’ve watched the finale. Tyrol’s a cylon, so his kid’s a hybrid.

            Um, yeah, that’s the point. It’s a spoiler of the finale for those who haven’t seen it yet.

            Uh-oh. Now we better spoiler-tag the fact that the Colonies get blown to hell by the Cylons, for people who haven’t seen the miniseries yet.

  3. babasyzygy says:

    Uh, that’s not what it says
    RDM does not say that season 4 is the final season in that interview! Where are you getting this? Who do you think you are, Slashdot?

    R: And you’ll have to decide long before the show returns for the fourth season next year, right?

    RM: The decision has nothing to do with next year’s ratings. It’s first and foremost a creative decision. … I have two chapters left in my head and I can see those being of different lengths. … The question of how many episodes is the best route to get there and deciding how much do we want to go out now and end strong and how much do we want to try to extend it because we all love it and go for another year. It’s an emotional/creative conversation that David and I have almost daily as we muddle through it all.

    • TheMightyTom says:

      Re: Uh, that’s not what it says
      good point zygy.
      still don’t know how to spolier tag so heads up

      I also feel like having the second hybrid isn’t the end o the world, as the first seven cylons don’t KNOW that its a hybrid, and second if the new group of cylons is "Fundamentally different" than the old, it could mean they are biolgiclly different, and philosophically different. maybe the seven models are built froms cratch to live for ever, maybe the second five are just programs entered into willing participants, they don’t seem to avhe the superstrength and enduracne the others have, they could just be humans with Great Hearing and a taste for music.
      Their mission, and plan may not be to exterminate humanity but to embrace it or strengthen it.
      I kind of wonder what the pegasus flashbacks will be about, is it the way they treat the frakked up six model, is it that cain is the fifth? (If she is we can probably throw the benevolent cylon model out the window)
      If its kara, then what does pegasus have to do with that, for a second if Lee was projecting, then he could be the fifth cylon, causing Adama to do a serious WTF?
      The five cylons seemed unaffected by Ragnar, so it supports my theory that they are just humans with some alteration, not grown from birth. Roslin seems to be able to pick up on the Six’s projection, which could be attributed to the halfbaby’s blood. baltar can do it too however, and unless Six gave him a blood transfusion caprica, that means either hes a cylon, or being a cylon is suddenly an STD.
      How does it take Strbuck three episodes to get to earth but it will take everyone else the rest of a season?
      Is baltar at last to become his Eveel self?
      With Duella conveniently walked out and Starbucks hubby sleeping with Torrie are we going to ahve to endure more Clark and lana, er starbuck and apollo?
      Will Gaeta ever get a woman? You’d think with the emphasis on breeding, SOMEONE would settle for the third in command…

      • KILNA says:

        Re: Uh, that’s not what it says

        Will Gaeta ever get a woman? You’d think with the emphasis on breeding, SOMEONE would settle for the third in command…

        Stop pushing your values on him, he’s gay! :)

  4. babasyzygy says:

    My theory
    I might as well throw my theory into the ring.

    OK, so Tigh, etc., are definitely Cylons, but a different kind. I put a high probability on Starbuck being the same kind of Cylon.

    "All this has happened before, all this will happen again."

    We know that the "overt seven," Six, Leoben, Boomer/Athena, Simon, D’Anna, Cavil, and Doral, are descended from the 40-50 year old "tin can" rebellion. If *they* don’t know who the other "final five" are, then those 5 could not have come from the same generation. Therefore, they come from something that happened before. This fits with us knowing that Tigh is old enough to have fought in the "tin can rebellion."

    I think the exodus from Kobol happened because the humans of that time made Cylons, and they rebelled, and wiped out life on Kobol. The humans of that time fled, founding the Colonies. The Cylons of that time made peace with the idea of the humans surviving, and placed some of their number with the colonies to breed with humans – perhaps their progenitors fell in love with humans just like Athena did. "Cylonhood" is dominant in hybrids, and Tigh, etc., are the descendants of those Cylons.

    Where did the rest of the Cylons of that time go? I think, Earth. I think Earth is either a Cylon civilization, or a civilization where Cylons and humans peacefully coexist.

    That brings us to, who the heck are the Lords of Kobol, who seem to coexist with the Cylon’s one God (according to one of the Oracles)? I think they are Cylon models (or hybrids) who took responsibility for each of the colonies. Kara isn’t just strongly drawn to Artemis (or perhaps Aurora, whose figurine the Oracle gave her), she’s her direct descendent. That’s why not-Leoben told her in her hallucination/projection not to fear death. It was very literal – Starbuck died when her ship blew, and she resurrected in an Earth resurrection ship. No big deal.

    I think that "All Along the Watchtower" was representative more of Jungian archetype than it was of literally the song that Dylan wrote in some distant past. The song itself is about Jesus being crucifed and the Parable of the Tenants, and I think it’s used in that sense. It’s a religious meme.

    Oh well. At least we will have 2 hours of Cain and the Battlestar Pegasus between now and 2008 to keep us entertained.

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: My theory

      The Cylons of that time made peace with the idea of the humans surviving, and placed some of their number with the colonies to breed with humans – perhaps their progenitors fell in love with humans just like Athena did. "Cylonhood" is dominant in hybrids, and Tigh, etc., are the descendants of those Cylons.

      A thousand years ago, human and Minbari souls began to merge….

      • J_W_W says:

        Re: My theory

        The Cylons of that time made peace with the idea of the humans surviving, and placed some of their number with the colonies to breed with humans – perhaps their progenitors fell in love with humans just like Athena did. "Cylonhood" is dominant in hybrids, and Tigh, etc., are the descendants of those Cylons.

        A thousand years ago, human and Minbari souls began to merge….

        :-)

  5. valen1260 says:

    farewell
    I’d much rather see BSG leave before going much further. It peaked with the escape from New Caprica (one of the greatest hours on television). The storylines revealed in the last few episodes have seemed almost–dare I say it–Lost-like. In an attempt to stretch out the show, they’ve killed and resurrected Starbuck, "revealed" four (quasi-)main characters as Cylons, "kidnapped" Baltar, and psychically linked Roslin with two Cylons. Oh, and look, they’re up against disastrous odds… again.

    Plus, despite the insufferable melodrama of Lee (the insufferable melodrama of Lee) on the stand, he really had a good point (a good point) about how they keep forgiving all the main characters’ screw ups. Clearly, there are little ramifications for their actions, so why should we care? Case in point (to be tested next season): Lee (now a civilian) gets back in a Viper, finds Starbuck, saves the fleet, is forgiven, and makes good with Pop and Mama Roslin.

    I was very disappointed by the finale, mostly because it held no real surprises, but also because it was so far below the usual BSG quality.

    • jesusX says:

      Re: farewell

      In an attempt to stretch out the show, they’ve killed and resurrected Starbuck,

      No, I don’t think they do that to stretch the show, they do it to further the plot. They did shows like Tyrol and Callie trapped in the airlock, or where Lee explores to the black market, to stretch the show. Those are filler eps. This happened because the character demanded something major. Lee is the conscience of the fleet. This character is the hope and redemption of the fleet through the character’s own tortured life.

      Also, we never saw the body. :)

      "revealed" four (quasi-)main characters as Cylons,

      Again, this was done to begin resolution to what we’ve been wondering about since Kobol. Where are the Colonies from, what’s their relation to Earth, and how do the Cylons fit in with it all. Also, we knew since the miniseries that there were cylon sleepers in the fleet.

      "kidnapped" Baltar,

      This just didn’t happen. You must have missed what was said immediately preceding that event.

      and psychically linked Roslin with two Cylons.

      Actually, it very well might be this has been happening since she first started Kamala root in season 1. And in S2 she knew the baby was something very important.

      Oh, and look, they’re up against disastrous odds… again.

      Again? When did they stop being against disastrous odds?

      I was very disappointed by the finale, mostly because it held no real surprises, but also because it was so far below the usual BSG quality.

      I thought it was the best yet. It shows that while no, RDM and crew never knew every step the journey would take, they knew where the journey led, and explored the path with us. That’s how EVERY story is written. Folks seem upset that they know it, and that rather than the writer following that path, THEN showing you, he’s showing you as he finds it. But that’s how TV works. If you really insist that the entire series be planned step by step before you start watching it, wait until the finale comes out on DVD. They it’ll all be "preplanned" rather than "the writers don’t know where they’re going."

      • valen1260 says:

        Re: farewell
        I’ll start with the easier replies. Please, don’t take any of this as hostile.

        "kidnapped" Baltar,

        This just didn’t happen. You must have missed what was said immediately preceding that event.

        I know they did it to rescue him. That’s why I put it in quotes. Is there something more?

        Oh, and look, they’re up against disastrous odds… again.

        Again? When did they stop being against disastrous odds?

        They’ve not been up against a Cylon fleet since they left New Caprica (I think). Regardless, they can’t jump away this time, and they lack the element of surprise that they had (twice) on NC. The only way for this to resolve without the destruction of the fleet is to 1) have them surrender (again), 2) have the Cylons surrender or make peace, 3) have the FTL drives spin up just in time (again), or 4) have some other deus ex machina save the fleet at the last minute. All are unacceptable.

        and psychically linked Roslin with two Cylons.

        Actually, it very well might be this has been happening since she first started Kamala root in season 1. And in S2 she knew the baby was something very important.

        If they were establishing the fact that the hybrid blood that saved her gave her a link to the "projection", fine. But, I have a hard time believing that if the curative properties of the hybrid blood are gone, the projection ability remains.

        As for your arguments to everything else, I think we have a differing view of storytelling. I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say, but it seems you think non-ending "stories", like soap operas and (some) comic books, are all about the journey. I believe that any story worth merit has a beginning, middle, and end planned before it is presented to the audience. There is room for insertion of "side-stories" here and there, but at some point, the story will end as planned.

        American television tends to not do this, much to its detriment. If a show is making money, the PTBs want to milk it until its dry (and then, usually for a few more seasons). Lost is a perfect example. Babylon 5 is a perfect counter-example; a story that got to tell its ending only after much effort on the part of JMS and the fans. Heroes may lie somewhere in the middle, able to tell a solid arc each season, without each season being mostly independent from the others. 24 is like this, but is too methodical for my enjoyment.

        • J_W_W says:

          Re: farewell

          American television tends to not do this, much to its detriment. If a show is making money, the PTBs want to milk it until its dry (and then, usually for a few more seasons). Lost is a perfect example. Babylon 5 is a perfect counter-example; a story that got to tell its ending only after much effort on the part of JMS and the fans. Heroes may lie somewhere in the middle, able to tell a solid arc each season, without each season being mostly independent from the others. 24 is like this, but is too methodical for my enjoyment.

          Moores’ comments in the podcasts and in this article thoroughly convince me that as good as he is JMS is still the master. Moore is too susceptible to thinking up big shocking things to wow the audience, even though those things open up big holes and contradictions in the previous stories. JMS would never have done that because to him it was all about the story and if the story was good enough the drama would naturally be there, and he’s right.

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