Buffy Discussion – “Conversations with Dead People”

Wow, was this a great episode. (I get Buffy on Monday nights on A-Channel Edmonton.) This is a landmark, people. Pay very close attention to all of the seemingly unimportant details, because you know they’ll all be coming back.

19 replies on “Buffy Discussion – “Conversations with Dead People””

  1. Jugulum says:

    Oh, come on!
    Hmm, should I keep this spoiler-free? Nah. If you don’t want to be spoiled, you shouldn’t be reading discussion about the episode! Even so, I’ll put a little whitespace–er, blackspace–for ya. So, SPOILERS AHEAD:

    OK, are we really supposed to believe that Spike is siring vamps? I mean, first, there’s the obvious objection that he has that dang chip, and doesn’t appear to be in any pain when he chomps down.

    But you also have to look at the “revelation” in terms of this episode as a whole. Every single cast member in this episode had Morphy showing up as someone coming back from the dead, lying to them, trying some psychological warfare as a preliminary attack for the coming Big Bad Thing. And you’re trying to tell me that Buffy was the only exception? That this horrifying revelation about Spike isn’t part of Morphy’s mind games?

    The biggest weakness with my argument–the only one, really, that I can see–is that if Morphy really is the one siring vamps, it would be an as-yet-unknown demonstration of power on his/her/its part. That is, this would be the first indication that Morphy even could do something like this.

    Hmmm…Another weakness. Or rather, an alternate explanation. Maybe Spike was more warped by his time in the basement than we realized. Maybe Morphy did something to the chip.

    Dang…I guess we’ll have to wait and see. Still, my money’s on the “Spike’s not really siring vamps” theory.

    • Alexius says:

      Re: Oh, come on!

      Dang…I guess we’ll have to wait and see. Still, my money’s on the “Spike’s not really siring vamps” theory.

      I Think It Is Spike. Angel Bit People When He Came Back. Maybe Spike Is hungry, Gets All Fangy With People, Then Feels bad For Killing Them, So he brings Them back As best he Can? Sounds Like Something An Insane, Soul Bound Vamp Would Do.

      The Theory That Buffy Is The Big Bad This Season Is Gaining Strength, If You ask Me. I Hope I’m Wrong, and Joss Is Screwing With Those Of Us Who read This Deep Into The Show, But Buffy Abandoning Dawn Sounds Like Something She’d Do If She Was Planning On ‘Doing What She Had To Do’, But It Not Being Something Good.

      …Assuming That Really Was Joyce Warning Dawn, And Not ‘Morphy’.

      And It Looks Like Willow Is The One Who Is Going To Be Taking Down Morphy. Why Else Was He Trying To Get her Away From Doing Magic, Unless She’s The Biggest Threat To him/It

      We Saw Warren Come back This Episode. I Would Love It If Next Week Glory Was A Main Character, And The Week After It Was Adam, Then The Mayor… Etc. Supposedly Faith Has Signed On For Some Episodes, That Would Work In The Mayor’s Episode.

      And Where The Hell Was Xander This Week? Or Anya? Maybe They WEre….. LEts Say ‘Making Up’. *Shrug*

      And Was It Just Me, Or Did The ‘She Still Sings To You’ Line Hook Anyone Else? I Had My Face Frozen In A Perpetual ‘Aww’ Look For the Next Two Scenes.

      *End Stream Of Rambling*

      -=-=-=-=-|
      – `Lex

      • Jugulum says:

        Re: Oh, come on!

        I Think It Is Spike. Angel Bit People When He Came Back. Maybe Spike Is hungry, Gets All Fangy With People, Then Feels bad For Killing Them, So he brings Them back As best he Can? Sounds Like Something An Insane, Soul Bound Vamp Would Do.

        I dunno. When Angel came back from hell, he was actually mindless. Not just loopy, seeing people, yammering to himself, etc.–he was completely mindless. Now, it’s true that we have no idea whether Spike has any deep moral qualms over killing people, even with his soul. So it’s conceivable that after being driven loopy by the return of his soul, being tormented by Morphy, and feeling his loss of Buffy even more strongly due to his soul, he would start killing people, turning back to what he knows. But we still have to consider his chip. And the fact that Morphy tried to trick every other character in the episode. (Yes, I’m assuming Joyce was Morphy.)

        • UncleJam says:

          Re: Oh, come on!

          I dunno. When Angel came back from hell, he was actually mindless. Not just loopy, seeing people, yammering to himself, etc.–he was completely mindless.

          I think the original poster was referring to when Angel first got his soul back, not when he came back from hell. IIRC, he did feed off of humans for a while (short?) after being cursed, but soon quit because of the horrible feelings it engendered in him.

      • Jugulum says:

        Re: Oh, come on!

        I Think It Is Spike. Angel Bit People When He Came Back. Maybe Spike Is hungry, Gets All Fangy With People, Then Feels bad For Killing Them, So he brings Them back As best he Can? Sounds Like Something An Insane, Soul Bound Vamp Would Do.

        I dunno. When Angel came back from hell, he was actually mindless. Not just loopy, seeing people, yammering to himself, etc.–he was completely mindless. Now, it’s true that we have no idea whether Spike has any deep moral qualms over killing people, even with his soul. So it’s conceivable that after being driven loopy by the return of his soul, being tormented by Morphy, and feeling his loss of Buffy even more strongly due to his soul, he would start killing people, turning back to what he knows. But we still have to consider his chip. And the fact that Morphy tried to trick every other character in the episode. (Yes, I’m assuming Joyce was Morphy.)

        • fiziko says:

          Re: Oh, come on!

          But we still have to consider his chip. And the fact that Morphy tried to trick every other character in the episode. (Yes, I’m assuming Joyce was Morphy.)

          I don’t believe that Morphy has a physical manifestation yet. I think he has the ability to alter perceptions, so that people are seeing what they think they see, and not what’s actually there. This is why the dead people have yet to interact with anyone, and why it was Andrew, not Warren, that stabbed Jonathan over the thing I assume is a seal that’s just been opened. I think that it was Spike’s body siring these people, but Spike’s current mental state makes him extremely susceptible to Morphy’s influence. (It may also be a vampire thing in general, given Buffy’s experience.) That means Spike may not realize what he’s doing when he feeds.

          There’s also the possibility that Spike has gained more than a soul, and that one of his personalities is Morphy. This would explain the “Big Bad is back!” comment he made earlier this season when he was in a fight.

  2. shinji says:

    What a huge episode
    I love these episodes. A bunch of stuff, very little of it making sense, setting up the rest of the season. What seems small will come back, what makes sense will change into something else, and what makes little sense (IE quote from Mom) will be extremely important. This is what makes Buffy good TV.

  3. y42 says:

    MONDAY?
    You get Buffy on mondays?!

    Damn! I have to wait until saturday night! Sunday monrning if I
    have a life and need to tape it…
    I need to have a serious talk with my cable provider…oh wait, they
    don’t care.

    Monday! ?!

    • Jugulum says:

      Re: MONDAY?

      You get Buffy on mondays?!

      No…The twelth was Tuesday. Not Monday. :)

      • lost says:

        Re: MONDAY?

        You get Buffy on mondays?!

        No…The twelth was Tuesday. Not Monday. :)

        The comment was referring to the fact that the original poster watched Buffy on Monday (NOT on UPN). I also watch it on A-Channel on Mondays. Which is to say that A-Channel airs it a day before UPN.

  4. SciFi0964 says:

    I see… dead people. Just dying for more
    Once again Buffy the Vampire Slayer entertains me as the story grows and the clues are revealed. This, the first sparring with the Big Bad, was a great “prelude” episode. Dawn faces a creature that attempts to stop her mother from giving a message. Buffy meets an old aquaintence turned vampire from school and must slay him after having a heart to heart talk and learning Spike may be siring vampires. Willo gets a message from a spirit who can commune with her love Tara. Poor Johnathon, a character I enjoyed for it’s comedic side, was duped into being sacrificed.
    I love the way the writers of these episodes work! Great plot developement! Just enough of a twist from standard plots to keep me entertained. I enjoy the ongoing puzzle of the phrase “From below, it consumes”. At present I am entertaining myself with a growing theory as to what, or who, the big bad will be.

    • Alexius says:

      Re: I see… dead people. Just dying for more

      I enjoy the ongoing puzzle of the phrase “From below, it consumes”.

      “From Beneath You, It Devours”

      or: “It Eats You Starting With Your Bottom.”

      -=-=-=-=-|
      – `Lex

      • SciFi0964 says:

        Re: I see… dead people. Just dying for more

        “From Beneath You, It Devours”

        or: “It Eats You Starting With Your Bottom.”

        -=-=-=-=-|
        – `Lex

        Whups! I stand corrected! My thanks for the correction. Though I don’t recall that second phrase. 8D

        • fiziko says:

          Re: I see… dead people. Just dying for more

          Whups! I stand corrected! My thanks for the correction. Though I don’t recall that second phrase. 8D

          That’s the phrase Jonathan and Andrew heard, roughly translated from “Mexican.”

          • y42 says:

            Re: I see… dead people. Just dying for more

            Whups! I stand corrected! My thanks for the correction. Though I
            don’t recall that second phrase. 8D

            That’s the phrase Jonathan and Andrew heard, roughly translated
            from “Mexican.”

            That’s “mexicoan” ;- )

  5. elhuevon says:

    wake up to new Dawn
    Dawn, dawn, dawn. I just dont like that character. She is just filler. When did she learn magic? Where did she get the magic stuff. I thought they through it out beacuse of willow.

    I like the buffy. If this is the last season we need to be done with build up, and setup. Next episdoe freaky deaky sh!t needs to start happening. If it all plays out that Dawn is to be a slayer I will stop watching. (before you die-hards twist yer panties because you have to born the slayer, Dawn wasn’t born She was was… well she wasnt born so she could be the slayer or something) Anyway Ive rambled to much

    Azura Skye needs to be around more

  6. mbourgon says:

    Light, Dark, Light, Dark
    Interesting tone this season. I watched last week’s and this week’s back-to-back, and was impressed by both.

    First, I gotta agree about the Former Legion of Super-Nerds being damn cool, and funny (It eats you starting at your bottom). It’s a damn shame they killed off Johnathon, since he’s been a recurring character since, what, Season 1? But, hey, he opened the Hellmouth, which is no mean feat. I was kind of hoping they’d keep the Big J around, since he was a much more interesting than Andrew, although I see promise with him being used mercilessly.

    I’m also seeing a whole light/dark/light/dark thing. Last week’s (Him) was fluffy and hilarious, a perfect Season 1 Ep. This episode was dark, dark, dark, although the conversation Buffy had was perfectly done, well-needed, apropos, and funny. Too bad she had to kill him. But it was interesting going between the 5 scenes (B/W/D/S/Nerds), since some were light, some dark, and then some dark at the end.

    • Buffy’s conversation/segment was fairly pointed, but not too terribly dark. Momentarily, sure, but only for a moment (or a commercial break).
    • Dawn’s was dark as hell, especially at the end once you saw who was pulling the strings (which, IMHO, included Joyce) – I think her image was put there to split Dawn from the party…but why?)
    • Willow’s appeared to be going well, until the end. Damn. And why does “it” want Willow to stop magic completely?
    • Spike – Clever. Started out thinking he’s normal, actually has a life now, and then *bam*. I’m curious why he was able to feed. Sure we’ll find out soon enough.
    • Super-nerds – obviously being used by The Big Bad for the season, and I see Andrew being further and further corrupted by “Warren”.

    So, anyone else see something slowly moving between Xander and Buffy? Looks like something’s going on, but not sure what. But every episode has some small bit of “play” between the two that we haven’t seen in a while.

    What else? Nice focusing on 3-4 characters, it gave everyone time. I’m sure we’ll see next week what’s going on with Xander and Anya. But one heck of an episode, lots of foreshadowing, lots of red herrings. Joss should be proud.

  7. smittennotbitten says:

    Missed it
    I’m struggling to figure out what happened … thanks for the hints. I missed the show this week because our local affiliate of UPN in Detroit shuffled programming at the last minute. They scrolled a message during last week’s episode it would air Sunday at 4, due to sports programming. That’s late for a Buffy fix, but OK. I confirmed it later that week on their web site (www.upn50.com; feel free to write them). Sunday at 4, no Buffy. Turns out at the last minute, they moved it to the prior day!! GRRRRRR! AAAARGH!!!

    Their email reply to me was pretty lame, and blamed it on corporate decisions. They had to shuffle wrestling and the 159th showing of “The Mask”.

    If anyone has the UPN main (HQ) address, or knows where I might find a copy of the episode, please advise.

    Thanks,
    Newbingly yours,
    smittennotbitten

    • Kheldar says:

      Re: Missed it

      Sunday at 4, no Buffy. Turns out at the last minute, they moved it to the prior day!! GRRRRRR! AAAARGH!!!

      If anyone has the UPN main (HQ) address, or knows where I might find a copy of the episode, please advise.

      Smitten,
      I had the same prob. Thankfully, Kazaa was there in my moment of need. If you still need it, give me a location and I’ll try to drop off a CD with the ep. You can e-mail me if you prefer at [email protected]. I probably won’t be able to do it till Friday, though.

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