14 replies on “Buffy Discussion – “Never Leave Me””

  1. Alexius says:

    Morphy == The 1st
    Kewl, I Called It!

    Also, My Sis And I were Talking About The “Vampire” At The End. We Hadn’t Decided If We Thought That Was The Master, Sup’ed Up, Or If It Was Something That Would Have Sired The Master (Or Grandsire, Or.. &c).

    Also, Anyone Else Pissed About The Reminder Of Giles Fate, And Then The Total Lack Of Mentioning It? My Guess Is That We Won’t Hear Anything About, Except That he’s Missing, Until He Shows Up Just In The Nick Of Time To Save The Day, Like Last Season. (And I Won’t be Disappointed.)

    • MrChris says:

      Re: Morphy == The 1st
      Yeah, good episode.

      Did anyone else think ‘Hes dead’ when the head watcher was giving his speach, only to think, ‘hmm maybe not’ when it cut away and then, ‘ah, yep’ when the building went boom!?

      Definately agree with the poster above, the reminder of Giles never to be told what happened was a pain, but kind of added to the suspense.

      I figured some time ago that the girls getting killed at the beginning of each episode were the future slayers, the watcher called them operatives, but I still think I’m right !

      Here’s looking forward to the next one.

      Mrchris

  2. Daemonik says:

    Twisting
    Excellent episode!

    First, I’ve felt since the beginning of this season that the girls getting killed were the ‘potential’ slayers, and everything in this episode makes me more sure of it. If the First is making a comeback, what better way to ensure his survival in the early stages than to remove the one person who could kill him? Ah, but if he kills the Slayer, there’s just another one waiting to take her place. Well, not if you kill them all before they can become Slayers, which is a good tie-in to bring Faith back this season, I’m betting Giles will spring her from the joint.

    Hey, what’s up with the Principal?? Is he a minion of the First? Is he something else? There’s still a couple of directions he could be going.

    1. He’s a secret minion of the First
    2. He’s some kind of servent of the Powers that Be, waiting for the right moment to help the Slayer
    3. He’s a freak who hides dead bodies because it’s too much paperwork

    Either way, the Pricipal is still an unknown.

    Question: Why did none of the Scoobies figure out that Spike deliberately tried to kill Andrew before he could tell them what he knew? Even after the blind monks tried to kill him, they still didn’t make the connection.

    • mbourgon says:

      Re: Twisting
      One quick question – where are those monks from? Aside from the X-Files. Were they from the season w/Glory? Buffy recognized them, but I didn’t.

      Bonus points: where’s the “It’s All About Power” reference in this episode? Someone brought this up several weeks ago, and it’s held true – power over someone else, power over yourself, power vs. responsibility…

      Hey, what’s up with the Principal??

      I thought they did that perfectly. They talked about The Big Bad being able to program Spike (anyone note the harmonica player playing the song at the beginning of the episode?) to respond to triggers. And then they showed the principal, face slack, doing similar tasks. He’s been programmed too, but the triggger is something not as obvious.

      And another moment of silence for Jonathon. If they’ve actually killed him off for good, it’s a shame.

      Question: Why did none of the Scoobies figure out that Spike deliberately tried to kill Andrew before he could tell them what he knew?

      Too much other stuff occuring, like the cultists, trying to find Spike, etc. Note that it all bunched up right there. They may figure it out in a couple of episodes, but I was trying to catch my breath, and I’m just watching the damn thing!

      And does anyone think the “First” is actually The Big Bad for this season? They mentioned the word “lies” way too many times this episode for my comfort – I think a friend of mine was right: The Big Bad, for this season, is The Devil. The Prince of (waitforit…) Lies.

      I suppose they could do a “Master” approach, and have him orchestrating things for the rest of the season, but it seems a bit early and obvious for The Big Bad to rear its head (13 or 14 episodes left still – at this point last season, we had just finished the music an episode or two ago).

      One interesting thing I noticed about an hour after the show ended – if the Shapechanging Nasty is what’s letting The First out, what does that relegate the Shapechanging Nasty to? A sidekick? Considering all the abilities of this thing (invisibility, shapechanging, lies), The First almost seems anticlimactic.

      Personally, I think there’s more coming, that this is just “The First” of many things that are going to be unleashed. Consider the taunting from last episode, and then back to the first episode where the SN changes into all the past enemies, and then Buffy. I like the idea, don’t get me wrong, but this grand evil thing just looks like a bloaty-head version of The Master. Big whoop. The Master was terrifying – this looks like they overinflated the mask.

      • frunk says:

        Re: Twisting

        One quick question – where are those monks from? Aside from the X-Files. Were they from the season w/Glory? Buffy recognized them, but I didn’t.

        It’s from an episode in the third season, Amends.

        Don’t click unless you want a detail description of the episode

        There may have been other references, but this is the only one I remember.

      • Alexius says:

        Re: Twisting

        Bonus points: where’s the “It’s All About Power” reference in this episode? Someone brought this up several weeks ago, and it’s held true – power over someone else, power over yourself, power vs. responsibility…

        I Didn’t Catch One, But Now I’m Gonna Be Thinking About It For The Rest OF The Night….

        And does anyone think the “First” is actually The Big Bad for this season? They mentioned the word “lies” way too many times this episode for my comfort – I think a friend of mine was right: The Big Bad, for this season, is The Devil. The Prince of (waitforit…) Lies.

        The First Is Kinda The Buffyverse Devil. He Is The Oldest Evil, And All Other Evil Supposedly Flows From Him.

        One interesting thing I noticed about an hour after the show ended – if the Shapechanging Nasty is what’s letting The First out, what does that relegate the Shapechanging Nasty to? A sidekick? Considering all the abilities of this thing (invisibility, shapechanging, lies), The First almost seems anticlimactic.

        The Shapchanging Nasty Is The First, That’s How He’s Manifesting.

        • y42 says:

          Re: Twisting

          The Shapchanging Nasty Is The
          First, That’s How He’s Manifesting.

          Yeah, but the thing it released…that isn’t the first izzit? It looks like a
          freakishly old vamp (the Buffy vamps get uglier as they age, iirc),
          and it definatly did not look like something strong enough to be the
          first evil (when compared to the apocalypse nowish demon from
          Angel, wich looked quite scary and powerfull).

      • rickyjames says:

        The Power of Unity…

        Bonus points: where’s the “It’s All About Power” reference in this episode? Someone brought this up several weeks ago, and it’s held true – power over someone else, power over yourself, power vs. responsibility…

        I agree it’s not obvious, but I vote for this ep showing the power of banding together. Xander and Anya were able to cooperate for a change in the good cop / bad cop routine. Willow didn’t wipe out Blood Boy as soon as she saw him. Buffy didn’t give in to Spike’s wishes and kill him. Buffy kept a possessed Spike from taking out Blood Boy thru the wall. When the monk’s attack came, they struck on three levels of the house and the Scoobies rebounded and rallied quickly to fight back and win on all levels. Their ability and power to do all of this and work as a team where everybody during the ep did something RIGHT to help the group cause came by their ignoring the lies that had been previously set to distract and disrupt them. Contrast this with the power of the Council, which is rapidly diminishing as their unified structure is being disrupted.

  3. pythor says:

    Mr. Morph Question
    Is anybody else out there wondering why Mr. Morph didn’t change into Tara a few eps back? Maybe Amber Benson was too busy to work on that ep, but I can’t see why. And with Willow being led up as a powerful weapon against the big bad, I’m wondering if there’s more signifigance there than I noticed before.

    What would prevent him from using Tara’s likeness that didn’t stop any of the others?

    The only thing I can think of(and I shudder at the thought) is this: Maybe the First was already in control when Jonathan shot Tara. Maybe he was already wittling away at Willow’s power even then. And perhaps, since he had a direct involvement in her death, she’s protected from being used by him.

    Or maybe I’m looking too deep into this, and Amber Benson has a busy schedule. :)

    • fiziko says:

      Re: Mr. Morph Question

      Is anybody else out there wondering why Mr. Morph didn’t change into Tara a few eps back?

      It could be Amber Benson’s schedule. It could also be that Willow knew Tara far too well. Dawn never had a good chance to talk to Joyce, and Buffy spoke to a guy she barely remembered. Willow, on the other hand, had a good, long conversation with her visitor. That’s a big risk to take if Morphy couldn’t perfectly emulate Tara, since Willow would spot it. But, if Morphy instead used someone Willow knew well enough to trust, but not well enough to spot small mistakes when it was a fake, then he/she/it had a much better chance for success.

    • teraph says:

      Re: Mr. Morph Question

      Is anybody else out there wondering why Mr. Morph didn’t change into Tara a few eps back? Maybe Amber Benson was too busy to work on that ep, but I can’t see why.

      From what I’ve read (in reviews and Wanda’s weekly stuff at E!Online) UPN and Amber couldn’t reach a contract agreement.

      • fiziko says:

        Re: Mr. Morph Question

        From what I’ve read (in reviews and Wanda’s weekly stuff at E!Online) UPN and Amber couldn’t reach a contract agreement.

        The reports I’ve read said that UPN and Amber Benson’s agent couldn’t come to an agreement. It struck me as odd that they’d mention the agent rather than the person, and they’ve probably done so for good reason. I suspect Amber Benson is not pleased with the way her agent handled those negotiations.

  4. fiziko says:

    Buffy and Power

    I just watched the last few minutes of “Two To Go,” the second last episode of season six. Dark Willow looked at Buffy and said, quote, “Buffy … I gotta tell ya … I get it now. The Slayer thing really isn’t about the violence. It’s about the power.” Unfortunately, I don’t remember who first noticed that theme in season seven, but it certainly looks like that was completely intentional from the outset. Nice catch.

    • HeidiHellmouth says:

      Re: Buffy and Power
      Well, I think Spike’s actions have a lot to do with his chiphead. Remember, the people that put the chip in were part of an “initiative” that were trying to brainwash demons to create a super-army. Although Spike escaped, the chip was there, and if The First knows things about everyone it/they come in contact with, they would of course know about the chip. If the song “Pretty Maid” had already been programmed as a trigger is debatable, but whatever brainwashing may have occurred, whether from the initiative or during the time Spike would have been very vulnerable (with a soul that hadn’t been used for over 125 years), it seems likely that the effects of the chip are being over-ridden by this trigger, and that the trigger is in the chip. If Buffy’s words to Spike have the right effect (ie. that she believes in him) he may find the strength to de-program himself. Whatever may be said of Spike, he didn’t, like Angel, recover his soul through a curse, nor was he, as was Angel, ever an evil person before becoming a vampire. He may, in fact, have been chosen by Angel to watch over the lunatic Drusilla because he is, as shown in the flashback of his life in Season Five, a “fool for love.” It may be by this “weakness”, at least to himself and to other vampires, that Spike fight back and again be trusted.

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