Buffy Discussion: “Touched” (New)

I think this is the fourth ep. from the end. All you buffy fans out there enjoy! (and on behalf of the other authors and myself, our apologies for missing the other Sunday discussion forums. With Fiz away for the week it got forgotten (even though he reminded us).

31 replies on “Buffy Discussion: “Touched” (New)”

  1. Timeshredder says:

    guess it depends on what crowd you run with….

    It’s not mine to review, so I’ll just post a few comments:

    High Point: The first envies us, despite the fact that we are merely animals. Yes! This is a way in which the devil has traditionally been portrayed, most famously in Paradise Lost, and it actually works here. I wonder if we’re actually going to get a traditional satanic motivation, then? (or even a motivation)

    Also… Finally…. A Big Bad makes use of a modern weapon. Not much of one, but still….

    Low Point: The “boot out Buffy” plot still makes no sense. Demote her, maybe. Replace her while the end of the world’s brewing? Pink-slip your strongest, most experienced figher? Portions of this ep still sound like they were written by someone in desperate need of sleep (kind of like these comments).

    TV Reality Point: Didn’t realize quite so many women had sex with their tops on….

  2. Gcdh says:

    Disappointed…Again….Weelll not really
    Well I should say that i was disappointed in this episode but its what i expected so im really not. I thought the episode did suck again due to over half the show being meaningless talk. For a bunch of people who seemed so together in booting Buffy they sure did fall apart fast. The biggest disappointment had to be the Buffy vs Caleb thing but hey once again it was what i expected. I also cant believe that Spike didnt take Buffy to the insription thing and what the hell happenned to the surviving priest dude? And going back to Buffy vs Caleb where were the dozens of Bringers that were present in Dirty Girls i mean come on where’s the consistency and with all of Calebs power how can he possibly not have gained speed and agility?! The love scenes were well too lovey and like shred has pointed out where was the lack of clothes??? Basically this was another wasted hour of episode with two things to keep you in suspense. Who dies from the little present in the box and what is it that Buffy has stumbled onto? Could it be, yes its the red power rangers axe! On the positive side the last five seconds were great and im glad to see that Anya and Xander finally get back in the action. Oh and my personal favorite Angel is back next week but i sense a late in the episode arrival maybe ill make up alternate eisode 2 just so i can think of what could’ve been…

  3. Gcdh says:

    Disappointed…Again….Weelll not really
    Well I should say that i was disappointed in this episode but its what i expected so im really not. I thought the episode did suck again due to over half the show being meaningless talk. For a bunch of people who seemed so together in booting Buffy they sure did fall apart fast. The biggest disappointment had to be the Buffy vs Caleb thing but hey once again it was what i expected. I also cant believe that Spike didnt take Buffy to the insription thing and what the hell happenned to the surviving priest dude? And going back to Buffy vs Caleb where were the dozens of Bringers that were present in Dirty Girls i mean come on where’s the consistency and with all of Calebs power how can he possibly not have gained speed and agility?! The love scenes were well too lovey and like shred has pointed out where was the lack of clothes??? Basically this was another wasted hour of episode with two things to keep you in suspense. Who dies from the little present in the box and what is it that Buffy has stumbled onto? Could it be, yes its the red power rangers axe! On the positive side the last five seconds were great and im glad to see that Anya and Xander finally get back in the action. Oh and my personal favorite Angel is back next week but i sense a late in the episode arrival maybe ill make up alternate eisode 2 just so i can think of what could’ve been…

  4. Gcdh says:

    Disappointed…Again….Weelll not really
    Well I should say that i was disappointed in this episode but its what i expected so im really not. I thought the episode did suck again due to over half the show being meaningless talk. For a bunch of people who seemed so together in booting Buffy they sure did fall apart fast. The biggest disappointment had to be the Buffy vs Caleb thing but hey once again it was what i expected. I also cant believe that Spike didnt take Buffy to the insription thing and what the hell happenned to the surviving priest dude? And going back to Buffy vs Caleb where were the dozens of Bringers that were present in Dirty Girls i mean come on where’s the consistency and with all of Calebs power how can he possibly not have gained speed and agility?! The love scenes were well too lovey and like shred has pointed out where was the lack of clothes??? Basically this was another wasted hour of episode with two things to keep you in suspense. Who dies from the little present in the box and what is it that Buffy has stumbled onto? Could it be, yes its the red power rangers axe! On the positive side the last five seconds were great and im glad to see that Anya and Xander finally get back in the action. Oh and my personal favorite Angel is back next week but i sense a late in the episode arrival maybe ill make up alternate eisode 2 just so i can think of what could’ve been…

  5. Daemonik says:

    Who knew?
    I never noticed Kennedy had a pierced tongue before. Woot ;)

    • Alexius says:

      Re: Who knew?

      I never noticed Kennedy had a pierced tongue before. Woot ;)

      That Scene, Plus This Has Made My Night Very…

      Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

      • GrimSean says:

        Re: Who knew?

        That Scene, Plus This Has Made My Night Very…

        Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

        Damn. Alexis Denisof is a lucky man.

      • Alexius says:

        Re: Who knew?

        I never noticed Kennedy had a pierced tongue before. Woot ;)

        That Scene, Plus This Has Made My Night Very…

        Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

        I’ll Be In My Bunk.

  6. Gcdh says:

    Disappointed…Again….Weelll not really
    Well I should say that i was disappointed in this episode but its what i expected so im really not. I thought the episode did suck again due to over half the show being meaningless talk. For a bunch of people who seemed so together in booting Buffy they sure did fall apart fast. The biggest disappointment had to be the Buffy vs Caleb thing but hey once again it was what i expected. I also cant believe that Spike didnt take Buffy to the insription thing and what the hell happenned to the surviving priest dude? And going back to Buffy vs Caleb where were the dozens of Bringers that were present in Dirty Girls i mean come on where’s the consistency and with all of Calebs power how can he possibly not have gained speed and agility?! The love scenes were well too lovey and like shred has pointed out where was the lack of clothes??? Basically this was another wasted hour of episode with two things to keep you in suspense. Who dies from the little present in the box and what is it that Buffy has stumbled onto? Could it be, yes its the red power rangers axe! On the positive side the last five seconds were great and im glad to see that Anya and Xander finally get back in the action. Oh and my personal favorite Angel is back next week but i sense a late in the episode arrival maybe ill make up alternate eisode 2 just so i can think of what could’ve been…

  7. Gcdh says:

    Disappointed…Again….Weelll not really
    Well I should say that i was disappointed in this episode but its what i expected so im really not. I thought the episode did suck again due to over half the show being meaningless talk. For a bunch of people who seemed so together in booting Buffy they sure did fall apart fast. The biggest disappointment had to be the Buffy vs Caleb thing but hey once again it was what i expected. I also cant believe that Spike didnt take Buffy to the insription thing and what the hell happenned to the surviving priest dude? And going back to Buffy vs Caleb where were the dozens of Bringers that were present in Dirty Girls i mean come on where’s the consistency and with all of Calebs power how can he possibly not have gained speed and agility?! The love scenes were well too lovey and like shred has pointed out where was the lack of clothes??? Basically this was another wasted hour of episode with two things to keep you in suspense. Who dies from the little present in the box and what is it that Buffy has stumbled onto? Could it be, yes its the red power rangers axe! On the positive side the last five seconds were great and im glad to see that Anya and Xander finally get back in the action. Oh and my personal favorite Angel is back next week but i sense a late in the episode arrival maybe ill make up alternate eisode 2 just so i can think of what could’ve been…

    • Gcdh says:

      Re: Disappointed…Again….Weelll not really
      Oh umm hehe my stupid computer locked onto the post button when i hit enter and copied my message until i manually shut off the stupid thing so to make a long apology short sorry please god i feel like an ideot

    • Eldhrin says:

      Re: Disappointed…Again….Weelll not really
      Okay, point by point:

      The talk wasn’t meaningless, it was necessary.

      The gang fell apart because although they’d banded together against Buffy, they had no structure without her, because she’d been their only structure since they came together. The situation is something akin to the entire government, military and police of a country vanishing instantly (only on a smaller scale)

      Spike didn’t need to take Buffy to the inscription, he could tell her what it said and the weapon it refers to is in Sunnydale anyway. Remember it’s some distance away.

      The Bringers weren’t with Caleb because they were there for the trap set for the Slayerettes and Faith (and got killed quite efficiently). Pay attention!

      Buffy appears to have gained some insight into both her personal problems and her power – her ‘meaningless’ talk with Spike was something very profound. She’s starting to overcome the demons of her past and accept herself more as she is, which has got to be good for her Slayer powers. Caleb does have speed and agility, I would suspect, but Buffy clearly has more.

      What Buffy has stumbled onto is what was referred to in the inscription, looks like a big axe to me… a Caleb-killing axe, we hope, but a nice axe whatever kind of axe it is a rather nice one.

      It was nice to see Anya and Xander back in action… also nice to see as much detail of Willow and Kennedy in bed as of the straight couples, TV has progressed it seems. The lack of clothes was disappointing, but not entirely surprising given their timeslot.

      I hope Angel isn’t all wet and mopey when he comes to Sunnydale, but it’ll be interesting when he meets Spike.

      • flemieux says:

        Re: Disappointed…Again….Weelll not really

        What Buffy has stumbled onto is what was referred to in the inscription, looks like a big axe to me… a Caleb-killing axe, we hope, but a nice axe whatever kind of axe it is a rather nice one.

        Anyone noticed that the axe-weapon is the same one that Fray carries ?
        Can’t seem to find out how Fray gets it, though, as she has it since Chapter V, but never received it from anybody (or i didn’t find it yet in the comics- read it a long time ago, don’t remember everything, but a friend said it was given to her by Urkonn, her watcher).
        Anybody?

        flemieux

        • Gcdh says:

          Re: Disappointed…Again….Weelll not really

          Ok a few more points i never specified what talks were meaningless but Buffy and Spike had a good talk i was referring to the other various talking that went on including the Bringer thing which barely revealed anything to me. Possibly it was nothing but a trap anyway so we really didnt learn a thing from that whole make a Bringer talk thing. Sure it led to a suspenseful ending but there were more time saving ways to set up that ending. Buffy obviously has more agility but her power is nnot even close to Calebs which is why im shocked that his power doesnt give him the ability to match her speed. I dont think Angel will be too broody and stuff and im looking forward to seeing his character interplay between Spike and Buffy once more.

  8. pythor says:

    I’m begining to think …
    That Giles really is evil. First, maybe, maybe jus a minion. Since the word that the first can’t be corporeal comes from Giles, I’m wondering if its really true. What if teh First can only maintain one corporeal body at a time. Concentrating on Giles makes everything else go all ethereal. And Giles is either making some really stupid decisions, or he’s on the wrong team. Why kill the Bringer when he just started saying interestings things? And how does the First know everything that’s going on?

    The good news is, with Buffy gone, Giles can’t spy on her for the First, and look what happened.

    • Alexius says:

      Re: I’m begining to think …

      That Giles really is evil.

      Damn.

      That Makes Too Much Sense, And Now I’m Wishing I Hadn’t Read It, Because I Feel Like I’ve Read A Spoiler.

      • GrimSean says:

        Re: I’m begining to think …

        That Giles really is evil.

        Damn.

        That Makes Too Much Sense, And Now I’m Wishing I Hadn’t Read It, Because I Feel Like I’ve Read A Spoiler.

        Yeah, and the First was going on about breaking necks, which is verrrrrry similar to sliting throats. It does make sense, but so did the whole Giles-is-the-First idea earlier in the season. Of course, Whedon could be trying to throw us off, but we might be reading to far into it.

        Forget it…. I’m not going to speculate on the next three episodes – Whedon’s too good at the plot twists, and I’d rather not be let down by thinking that we came up with something, it would be anticlimatic.

        • GrimSean says:

          Re: I’m begining to think …

          Forget it…. I’m not going to speculate on the next three episodes – Whedon’s too good at the plot twists, and I’d rather not be let down by thinking that we came up with something, it would be anticlimatic.

          I had a dream last night, and it made much more sense, so even though I said I wouldn’t speculate anymore….

          It’s not Giles. It’s Kennedy. Makes sense, doesn’t it? She doesn’t really get along with anyone except Willow (first she challenges Buffy, now she challenges Faith and she stirs up the other potentials causing dissention), and could conceivably come between Willow and everyone else, or by revealing herself as the First, cause Willow to totally lose faith and be unable to do the big magic when needed.

          That is all.

      • davatar2 says:

        Re: I’m begining to think …

        That Giles really is evil.

        Damn.

        That Makes Too Much Sense, And Now I’m Wishing I Hadn’t Read It, Because I Feel Like I’ve Read A Spoiler.

        I didn’t imagine that quick move by giles could NOT seem hasty and out of place by anyone. My reaction was “uhhhhh…”

        • Timeshredder says:

          Re: I’m begining to think …

          That Giles really is evil.

          Whedon has presented some fair twists in the past. These would be clever, but (forgive my cynicism), there’s been an awful lot of bad writing this season, “Conversations with Dead People” notwithstanding, and too much of it hasn’t been connected. For example, many characters join to boot Buffy, and no one in the show (apparently) realizes that Giles did something brutal and stupid. But I guess we’ll see.

    • quantaman says:

      Re: I’m begining to think …

      That Giles really is evil. First, maybe, maybe jus a minion. Since the word that the first can’t be corporeal comes from Giles, I’m wondering if its really true. What if teh First can only maintain one corporeal body at a time. Concentrating on Giles makes everything else go all ethereal. And Giles is either making some really stupid decisions, or he’s on the wrong team. Why kill the Bringer when he just started saying interestings things? And how does the First know everything that’s going on?

      The good news is, with Buffy gone, Giles can’t spy on her for the First, and look what happened.

      He could also have turned since Buffy started insulting him with the don’t need a teacher thing. Also notice that of the main gang only Xander, Tara, Buffy, and Giles havn’t been approached by the first (that we’ve seen). Xander and Tara I can see as they isn’t really big combatants or powerful. Still Buffy and Giles? Giles could be explained if he is evil but then again the first could just not care enough about him but I would think the first would go after Buffy. One thought is that may be Angel’s appearance, the First mascarading as him to get to Buffy. Also notice that the First hasn’t really messed with the group. Given how much work the First seems to be doing to split them apart one would think that it would be useful to pop in every once in a while and pretend to be Buffy and mouth someone off.

      Either way if it is Giles I suspect that it would be more along the lines of is alive and is just switched sides for some reason, in the beginning it would have been to easy for him to just off those potentials seperately instead of bringing them in. Then again his thing in the desert could have been a ritual to make him corporeal or something.

      • Kyla Morgan says:

        Re: I’m begining to think …

        Could be. Going back to around the beginging/middle of the season. Wasn’t Giles like an inch from death. I’d expect a quick get away from Buffy or Angel but Giles. I don’t know the axe thing WAS right above his head. Or has this been cleared up already.
        It wasn’t supprising to see the girls with their clothes on givin the time they where being aired. Although I suspect it’s to some disappointment to a few people.

        • nkuzmik says:

          Tactics in general
          One major problem I’m having is from a tactic perspective. Let me try to do this in some order here.

          1. Splitting of Forces: Yes, Buffy was not presenting well during the rebellion. No argument. A change of leadership seemed like a good idea. But the problem now is with Buffy leaving is that she takes with them 1/3 of their main battle elements. Spike took another third. Granted neither of them is going to give up the fight but they would be best to coordinate with the rest of the group. The rest of the humans aren’t slouches, but they aren’t even speed bumps for an uber-vamp, let alone Caleb(more on him later)

          2. Plans and Intel: Buffy talks to Caleb, has a revelation about the vineyard. Great, cool, by the way she seems to be right, but just charging back in??? She gave the troops no indication that this would be any different from last time. Basic rule of leadership, unless you’re leading elite crack troops who are borderline fanatical(by that I mean some aren’t, but some are a little nuts, so it averages to ‘borderline’), you need to convince the troops that at least some of them are coming home.

          3. Recon, then strike: Faith’s idea of Recon seems a lot like Patton’s. For those of you who don’t know, Patton’s idea of recon was to drive his tank through a town not the locations of all the Germans he just killed. And what was with those crappy little flashlights? My dippy little AA Maglite throws more light!

          4. Communication: Spike and Andrew go out to gather intel, but they don’t seem to be able to communicate with home base. They go, they look around, they don’t take any notes, that we see. They don’t document anything. Granted they may not have a 32 mega-pixel optical zoom digital camera, but ya couldn’t have stopped at 7eleven for a couple of little disposables and hit Moto-photo on the way back?

            “But what if we need to get the info back RTFN?”

          Then use this wonderful invention called a “phone.”

          5. Faith’s plan: I know Faith’s new at this leader thing and she’s been out of circulation for a while, but bear with me. She takes a sizable chunk of the potentials out on a search and destroy mission, which really should have been a 2-4 person recon team mantaining radio contact with a larger strike force that is trailing behind, but they didn’t bring any demolition stuff, just normal weapons. You mean Willow couldn’t whip up some kitchen napalm or any one of a number of compounds know for violent exothermic reactions?

          6. Buffy actually having a plan: Finally something I’m not too annoyed with. Granted going solo was pretty stupid but Buffy usually does okay with solo ops. Buffy saw something in Caleb. Speed. He doesn’t have it. Granted, he does have reaction speed and reflexes to match her or anybody else in a fight. Combine that with his strength which appears to rival Glory’s, and you get the FUBAR that was the first raid on the Vineyard. But what Caleb can’t appear to do is move his tuchas from point A to point B like he’s feeling a tremendous urgency. Buffy, on the other hand, can move like monkey on Red Bull. So long as she doesn’t get hemmed into a corner, she can keep out of his reach all day.

          7. Finally, Caleb: I was thinking back to the times we’ve seen him fight, and there is something I can’t remember; have we seen him take any really good hits? If we look back at other powerful enemies, Adam, Glory, Uber-vamp, they all demonstrated that they were resiliant, as well lethal. Heck! Glory was hit my a Mac Truck, a wrecking ball, and Olaf’s God-Hammer! Even my Aunt’s homemade cookies would crumble under that onslaught!

          Obviously we haven’t seen Caleb take hits of this magnitude but did anybody get any really good ones in? We know he’s freakishly strong, but just how tough is he?
          Personally, my favorite kill was the Judge. I saw something like that coming as soon as I heard the prophecy. “No weapon forged…” “Okay…” I thought to myself. “Forged weapons are out… Let’s assume all metal is out. That leaves rocks. Wood, Buffy is good with wood, stakes and all. Polymers and composites… Hack him up with a carbon fiber sword… Or blow him up. The shrapnel won’t hurt him but it will separate every part of him, from every other part of him…”

          8. The Value of the Vineyard: Going back to Buffy’s revelation from Item 1, if we assume that the something in the Vineyard is of value to Calb & the First, then we want to take it away.
          This goes back to the Art of War. Whatever it is your enemy wants to have you want to deny.
          But there are better ways to go about this than another frontal assault followed by an occupation, as evidenced by Buffy’s solo raid. There is also another way, that also provides Intel as to the nature of the Item of Value. Process of elimination. If they building itself has some intrinsic value, then you want to take them out of the building or take the building away from them. Assume option at is unworkable, and run with Plan B. In the spirit of the Judge and the Mayor, blow it up! Plant explosives around the perimiter during they day when the Bringers are less active and push the button! Okay maybe they can’t aquire enough explosives, I think they could and I could justify it but that would involve explaining how to make a bomb but I think I’ll just shut up now. Assuming conventional explosives are out of reach, it’s time for a drink. May I suggest a charming little Russian concontion known as a Molotov Cocktail? If you get creative you can even make a crude Fuel-Air-Explosive with things you find around the house! You all remember MOAB

          Okay, I think I’m done for now. This was enough procrastinating before I get back to studying.

          Finals are true evidence of the First in our world!

          BTW,what’s the URL tag for underlines?
          , don’t you?

          • Kyla Morgan says:

            Re: Tactics in general

            Watch ya studying?
            Buffy fighting matrix style was kewl. It was nice to see her speed and agility. Other then just her strength.
            I never really saw a lot of Glory, or the Judge for that matter I’m not really sure how much of big bads they were.
            I’m not really sure what to think of Caleb. I guess he’s pretty strong. Well compared to normal mortals he’s very strong. Like Buffy said he’s a women hating jerk!

            • Eldhrin says:

              Re: Tactics in general
              Glory hit like Caleb does, but she was also very, very fast and even her dress deflected Willow’s high-speed magically-powered flying knives without being damaged. Caleb just seems to be incredibly strong, no evidence yet that he’s made of God-stuff like Glory. Although it’s possible.

              Watch ya studying?
              Buffy fighting matrix style was kewl. It was nice to see her speed and agility. Other then just her strength.
              I never really saw a lot of Glory, or the Judge for that matter I’m not really sure how much of big bads they were.
              I’m not really sure what to think of Caleb. I guess he’s pretty strong. Well compared to normal mortals he’s very strong. Like Buffy said he’s a women hating jerk!

              • Crazy Monkey says:

                Re: Tactics in general

                Glory hit like Caleb does, but she was also very, very fast and even her dress deflected Willow’s high-speed magically-powered flying knives without being damaged. Caleb just seems to be incredibly strong, no evidence yet that he’s made of God-stuff like Glory. Although it’s possible.

                Ya know what I’d like to see if Caleb can “soak”? A full belt of .50BMG out of a Browning M2. Or other modern weapon of your choice. Heck, even the doulbe barrel Buffy took from the guy earlier in the espisode. What is it with this show and guns? It’s obviously not a personal thing of Joss’, witness Firefly.

                I can see why they aren’t the best against god like big bads, such as Glory, but I’m thinking conventional weapons would work well against Bringers, shotguns loaded with toothpick fletchettes would be dandy against vamps, ueber or otherwise, and these sorts of things require little training to use effectively (as opposed to swords & the like, ovbiously you need to train as hard as is practical with any weapon).

                • nkuzmik says:

                  Re: Tactics in general

                  Glory hit like Caleb does, but she was also very, very fast and even her dress deflected Willow’s high-speed magically-powered flying knives without being damaged. Caleb just seems to be incredibly strong, no evidence yet that he’s made of God-stuff like Glory. Although it’s possible.

                  Ya know what I’d like to see if Caleb can “soak”? A full belt of .50BMG out of a Browning M2. Or other modern weapon of your choice. Heck, even the doulbe barrel Buffy took from the guy earlier in the espisode. What is it with this show and guns? It’s obviously not a personal thing of Joss’, witness Firefly.

                  I can see why they aren’t the best against god like big bads, such as Glory, but I’m thinking conventional weapons would work well against Bringers, shotguns loaded with toothpick fletchettes would be dandy against vamps, ueber or otherwise, and these sorts of things require little training to use effectively (as opposed to swords & the like, ovbiously you need to train as hard as is practical with any weapon).

                  A full belt from Ma Duece?
                  That’s harsh.
                  That’s brutal.
                  That’s really close to being overkill.
                  I like it!

                  Personally was thinking a field of pink Claymore mines with pictures of Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears tapped to the front.

                  BTW, I study Literature!

                • quantaman says:

                  Re: Tactics in general

                  Glory hit like Caleb does, but she was also very, very fast and even her dress deflected Willow’s high-speed magically-powered flying knives without being damaged. Caleb just seems to be incredibly strong, no evidence yet that he’s made of God-stuff like Glory. Although it’s possible.

                  Ya know what I’d like to see if Caleb can “soak”? A full belt of .50BMG out of a Browning M2. Or other modern weapon of your choice. Heck, even the doulbe barrel Buffy took from the guy earlier in the espisode. What is it with this show and guns? It’s obviously not a personal thing of Joss’, witness Firefly.

                  I can see why they aren’t the best against god like big bads, such as Glory, but I’m thinking conventional weapons would work well against Bringers, shotguns loaded with toothpick fletchettes would be dandy against vamps, ueber or otherwise, and these sorts of things require little training to use effectively (as opposed to swords & the like, ovbiously you need to train as hard as is practical with any weapon).

                  Personally I attribute it more to the fact that guns would be insanely boring. Think about it, every time there was a threat Buffy just goes out and shoots it, where’s the fun in that? True they have used them a few times (The Judge and the Mayor) but in both instances it was specifically stated they were immune to everything else. They’ve never had a great explanation as to why they don’t use them other than “these things never work!” but I don’t mind, just let it slide.

          • Gcdh says:

            Re: Tactics in general

            7. Finally, Caleb: I was thinking back to the times we’ve seen him fight, and there is something I can’t remember; have we seen him take any really good hits? If we look back at other powerful enemies, Adam, Glory, Uber-vamp, they all demonstrated that they were resiliant, as well lethal. Heck! Glory was hit my a Mac Truck, a wrecking ball, and Olaf’s God-Hammer! Even my Aunt’s homemade cookies would crumble under that onslaught!

            Obviously we haven’t seen Caleb take hits of this magnitude but did anybody get any really good ones in? We know he’s freakishly strong, but just how tough is he?

            The best hit i saw Caleb take was a kick right into the side of the knee joint and from Buffy no less. His knee didnt even twitch and he was unfazed not to mention the many face punches he’s taken in stride. Someone with a joint that powerful has to have some resilence.

      • Alexius says:

        Re: I’m begining to think …

        He could also have turned since Buffy started insulting him with the don’t need a teacher thing. Also notice that of the main gang only Xander, Tara, Buffy, and Giles havn’t been approached by the first (that we’ve seen). Xander and Tara I can see as they isn’t really big combatants or powerful.

        Do You Mean Anya?

        Still Buffy and Giles?

        Well, The Bringers Did (Try To) Behead Him.

        Giles could be explained if he is evil but then again the first could just not care enough about him but I would think the first would go after Buffy. One thought is that may be Angel’s appearance, the First mascarading as him to get to Buffy. Also notice that the First hasn’t really messed with the group. Given how much work the First seems to be doing to split them apart one would think that it would be useful to pop in every once in a while and pretend to be Buffy and mouth someone off.

        I Was Wondering About That Too. Like Why Appear As The Various Dead Slayers In Training, When They’re All Talking In The Basement? Imagine Buffy Walks Down Breifly, Asks If Everyone Has A Will, Then Walks Back Up. Much More Effective.

        Either way if it is Giles I suspect that it would be more along the lines of is alive and is just switched sides for some reason, in the beginning it would have been to easy for him to just off those potentials seperately instead of bringing them in. Then again his thing in the desert could have been a ritual to make him corporeal or something.

        I Would Be More Inclined To think Giles Isn’t The Real Giles, But Who Knows.

        • Gcdh says:

          Re: I’m begining to think …

          He could also have turned since Buffy started insulting him with the don’t need a teacher thing. Also notice that of the main gang only Xander, Tara, Buffy, and Giles havn’t been approached by the first (that we’ve seen). Xander and Tara I can see as they isn’t really big combatants or powerful.

          Do You Mean Anya?

          Yea because i can explain why the first isnt bothering Tara. Number one Amber Benson hasnt signed up to be filmed on any episodes and in Buffy land she’s sorta dead. Anya is powerful though if you remember the episode before Dirty Girls she and Buffy had a pretty nice fight and Anya even demoinstrated that she can be impaled and keep on ticking. Shes possibly more powerful than Spike in this aspect plus she’s all vengeance-like and volatile and it would make a lot of sense to have gone after her.

          Giles could be explained if he is evil but then again the first could just not care enough about him but I would think the first would go after Buffy. One thought is that may be Angel’s appearance, the First mascarading as him to get to Buffy.

          Giles is definitly not evil they already explained that he wasnt and i dont see how they could turn him with just 2 episodes left. Angel also is not evil if you watched on the season finale he recieved an envelope containing info and something else on Sunnydale so he’s definitly him. Plus the preview show’d him and Buffy touching and if he was the first he wouldnt be corpereal

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