52 replies on “Battlestar Galactica Discussion – “Pegasus””

  1. J_W_W says:

    Insane Admiral Syndrome
    My wife and I both came to the conclusion that Ron Moore has brought “Crazy Admiral Syndrome” with him from Star Trek.

    Although, its never been so damn intense… I love the way Admiral Cain is completely ingnoring the President and the rest of the fleet. She’s going to hurt the fleet more than the cylons could.

    Also, was it just me or was it BEYOND obvious that a super secret reconnasance mission was in store for the blackboard sometime? I just thought it might be more than one episode away.

    • Jethro says:

      Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

      My wife and I both came to the conclusion that Ron Moore has brought “Crazy Admiral Syndrome” with him from Star Trek.

      *grins* This was beyond insane. It was… really just a VASTLY different command style than Adama. Imagine what the fleet would’ve been like with her in charge the entire time. I’d imagine that martial law would’ve been enforced long ago. Might’ve been a civil war by now, too.

      And yeah, I thought they’d at least wait a few episodes before flying the stealth ship out there.

      • Zarhim says:

        Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

        *grins* This was beyond insane. It was… really just a VASTLY different command style than Adama. Imagine what the fleet would’ve been like with her in charge the entire time.

        Did anyone notice that in her first address to the fleet (via the media camera’s on the deck of the Galactica) was “Welcome back to the Colonial Fleet”? I’m sorry, doesn’t a “fleet” usually consist of more than one ship? No, there’s no ego there.

        • valen1260 says:

          Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

          Did anyone notice that in her first address to the fleet (via the media camera’s on the deck of the Galactica) was "Welcome back to the Colonial Fleet"? I’m sorry, doesn’t a "fleet" usually consist of more than one ship? No, there’s no ego there.

          I thought that said immediately what we were to think of her. She was arrogant and immediately assumed complete control, military and civilian.

        • Antti Helin says:

          Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

          *grins* This was beyond insane. It was… really just a VASTLY different command style than Adama. Imagine what the fleet would’ve been like with her in charge the entire time.

          Did anyone notice that in her first address to the fleet (via the media camera’s on the deck of the Galactica) was “Welcome back to the Colonial Fleet”? I’m sorry, doesn’t a “fleet” usually consist of more than one ship? No, there’s no ego there.

          It was a brilliant piece of writing. When the crews were all celebrating and such, I was staring at the screen dumbstruck, thinking “Welcome BACK to the fleet? Nothing good can come out of this…”

          • MrChris says:

            Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

            “Welcome BACK to the fleet”? Nothing good can come out of this…

            Actually this makes perfect sense. As an admiral she out ranks Adama and that effectively makes her ship the flag ship war vessel of the colonies. She is ‘fleet command’ by rank and knows this, so far as she is concerned Galactica is the one that has been MIA, not Pegasus.

            Yes it ignores the civilian fleet and yes it seems odd that 1 ship considers itself ‘the fleet’, but technically that wording was spot on.

    • octa says:

      Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome
      Yeah the acting and writing was so good that I started hating her towards the end :). I seriously doubt they’ll keep her alive or at least with the fleet, the rift in command is distracting.

      My guess is she’ll be killed somehow before she can make too much of a mess, wouldn’t be surprised if it’s by that guy who’s second in command.

      The scenes of rape and torture really got to me. Though having such a protruding bolt in a prison cell seems a bit far fetched to me :x

      • valen1260 says:

        Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

        My guess is she’ll be killed somehow before she can make too much of a mess, wouldn’t be surprised if it’s by that guy who’s second in command.

        I love the scene where the XO’s are drinking, and the Pegasus XO tells Tigh the story of his predecessor. Then, he writes it all off as a joke, and Tigh laughs, even though he still thinks it the truth. What are we supposed to believe? Then, when it’s obvious the crew of the Pegasus thinks Cain is making a mistake, they look too terrified to do something.

      • Zarhim says:

        Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

        I seriously doubt they’ll keep her alive or at least with the fleet, the rift in command is distracting.

        My guess is she’ll be killed somehow before she can make too much of a mess, wouldn’t be surprised if it’s by that guy who’s second in command.

        Well going by the original series, which this arc is somewhat following (Pegasus was following a large Cylon fleet, which in turn was following the Galatica fleet) I’m guessing that Pegasus is going to be left behind, going one on one with that “large” unknown ship, and left for dead.

    • Babbster says:

      Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

      My wife and I both came to the conclusion that Ron Moore has brought “Crazy Admiral Syndrome” with him from Star Trek.

      To be fair, during Ron’s term on DS9 we did finally get a Starfleet Admiral who was actually capable of being liked and respected: Admiral Ross during the Dominion War. :)

    • Dark Nexus says:

      Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

      Also, was it just me or was it BEYOND obvious that a super secret reconnasance mission was in store for the blackboard sometime? I just thought it might be more than one episode away.

      I would be using it before just about every mission that had the potential for Cylon interference if I were them, to make sure they aren’t about to jump into an ambush. Think of it like an advanced scout.

      • nkuzmik says:

        Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

        Also, was it just me or was it BEYOND obvious that a super secret reconnasance mission was in store for the blackboard sometime? I just thought it might be more than one episode away.

        I would be using it before just about every mission that had the potential for Cylon interference if I were them, to make sure they aren’t about to jump into an ambush. Think of it like an advanced scout.

        Does the Blackbird have FTL? Could they have borrowed the FTL from one of those Raiders?

    • joblo says:

      Re: Insane Admiral Syndrome

      My wife and I both came to the conclusion that Ron Moore has brought “Crazy Admiral Syndrome” with him from Star Trek.

      Speaking of briging things from Star Trek along, I remember when our dear Admiral was a mere ensign who got in a great deal of trouble over wearing some jewlery while on duty.

      Really did like the Ro-lauren (loren?) episodes in TNG… what were they? Season six?

  2. Jethro says:

    Wow
    Was this a good episode. My girlfriend says that the show is getting a bit too ‘intense’ for her, which just means she’ll keep watching. (:

    The one thing it did bring up was the whole cylon-rape thing. Now, I want to make it clear that in no way do I consonde rape, nor would I ever condone it.

    But I found it a bit hard to really care about what they did to Six and what was about to happen to Sharon. I mentioned this to my girlfriend and she said “Just because she’s a machine doesn’t mean she doesn’t have feelings!” and I figure that actually that’s exactly what it means.

    Now, yes, for the purposes of the story we’re supposed to sympathise with Sharon (and even Six) despite the fact that they are directly responsible for unspeekable horrors against the human race (cylons are all linked, right?) Most times this is solved not by having ‘us’ sympathise with them, but by us saying “Hey… we’re HUMANS, we’re BETTER than that!”

    But I don’t think anyone had a problem back when Starbuck was beating the living daylights out of a cylon prisoner, and the only problem most people had with them shoving cylons out of an airlock was that it was a waste – they could’ve learned a lot by experimenting the heck out of them.

    How do you guys see this? And yes, in fact I /did/ sit through AI going “He’s only a ROBOT, who the heck CARES if he’s crying?”

    • Damien says:

      Re: Wow

      But I found it a bit hard to really care about what they did to Six and what was about to happen to Sharon. I mentioned this to my girlfriend and she said "Just because she’s a machine doesn’t mean she doesn’t have feelings!" and I figure that actually that’s exactly what it means.

      Personally I think that is ultimately going to be a part of the larger story, I suspect there are many surprises left to come.

      "Robots" are also not supposed to be able to biologically reproduce but one did. They are also not supposed to be able to have feelings, but they do.

      Its a complicated story.

      Actually I felt incredibly uncomfortable during that scene and was then incredibly pleased when the two broke in and killed the "interrogator".

      And personally I do see a world of difference between physical abuse (Starbuck’s interrogation) and rape, but maybe that’s just me.

      Damien

      • valen1260 says:

        Re: Wow

        Personally I think that is ultimately going to be a part of the larger story, I suspect there are many surprises left to come.

        "Robots" are also not supposed to be able to biologically reproduce but one did. They are also not supposed to be able to have feelings, but they do.

        Now you get into some fun word games. Really, humans are robots, just of a biological construction as opposed to synthetic/mechanical. We have specialized parts, genetic blueprints, interdependent systems, etc. Human-type Cylons are an evolutionary fork, created by man that will supplant man.

        Why can’t Cylons reproduce? Or feel pain? If not originally programmed to do such, the rewritability of their "software" would make their evolution much quicker than that of random mutation.

    • Jard says:

      Re: Wow

      But I found it a bit hard to really care about what they did to Six and what was
      about to happen to Sharon. I mentioned this to my girlfriend and she said
      “Just because she’s a machine doesn’t mean she doesn’t have feelings!” and I
      figure that actually that’s exactly what it means.

      What makes it so disturbing for me is not the question of “do the cylons feel?”
      But how could humans be so caviler about doing something like that. The
      whole point of the human shape cylons is you can not tell the difference, that
      puts the pegasus crew in a very bad and very dangerous mind set. If they can
      do that to something that is in all physical regards human what difference
      does it make if the thing can feel.

      To return to the question of “do cylons feel”? I think that quite obviously they
      think they do, which is all that really matters.

      • Choice says:

        Re: Wow

        But how could humans be so caviler about doing something like that.

        This is exactly what this is all about. Pretty relevant considering the world today.
        Who are we, when the lights are out and no one is watching.

        Choice

    • Babbster says:

      Re: Wow
      One might begin to wonder if part of this whole thing (letting some humans live) is a test by the cylons to see if humanity is worthy of existing at all. If the humans as a society could find forgiveness of cylons, that would be an indication of morality and ethics. If, on the other hand, humans brutally mistreat even cylons who can no longer do them harm (because they’re chained up and caged) then that’s a pretty good reason to do away with the lot of them.

    • J_W_W says:

      Re: Wow

      The one thing it did bring up was the whole cylon-rape thing. Now, I want to make it clear that in no way do I consonde rape, nor would I ever condone it.

      But I found it a bit hard to really care about what they did to Six and what was about to happen to Sharon. I mentioned this to my girlfriend and she said “Just because she’s a machine doesn’t mean she doesn’t have feelings!” and I figure that actually that’s exactly what it means.

      Now, yes, for the purposes of the story we’re supposed to sympathise with Sharon (and even Six) despite the fact that they are directly responsible for unspeekable horrors against the human race (cylons are all linked, right?) Most times this is solved not by having ‘us’ sympathise with them, but by us saying “Hey… we’re HUMANS, we’re BETTER than that!”

      What really distracted me was the fact that the cylons easily overpower a human if they want to. In the situation six was in I couldn’t imagine why she just wouldn’t start ripping peoples arms off. She easily overpowered Starbuck, and even with multiple people coming at her she would be able to seriously hurt someone (with Starbuck, it seemed a little like a game, I think six could have hurt Starbuck more if she had wanted).

      It was really hard for me to believe she would have put up with that instead of fighting to the death. And we’ve seen before that cylons aren’t (are they?) afraid to die.

      • Trekkie says:

        Re: Wow
        That was my only major niggly thing about the whole deal, is while they’re
        supposed to be phsycially superior strength wise they still turn into wilted
        flowers when they’re only abused in the slightest way (smacked around,
        chained to the floor)

        The hardest thing for me to swallow though is that the Pegasus crew we are
        introduced too all like to rape a cylon for fun. I’d like to think I’d stay
        ‘human’ enough to not want to use my dick as a weapon or to get off on
        doing something like that, but hey that’s a pretty extreme situation.

        Personally I think the beating a robot up in jail vs. raping one is
        ‘different’.

        That being said I would have been more than happy to
        see their cylon vivesected open on a table with them poking things to see
        what happens. But just raping away on it to get info out of it seems, well,
        insane.

        • nkuzmik says:

          Re: Wow

          That was my only major niggly thing about the whole deal, is while they’re
          supposed to be phsycially superior strength wise they still turn into wilted
          flowers when they’re only abused in the slightest way (smacked around,
          chained to the floor)

          The hardest thing for me to swallow though is that the Pegasus crew we are
          introduced too all like to rape a cylon for fun. I’d like to think I’d stay
          ‘human’ enough to not want to use my dick as a weapon or to get off on
          doing something like that, but hey that’s a pretty extreme situation.

          Personally I think the beating a robot up in jail vs. raping one is
          ‘different’.

          That being said I would have been more than happy to
          see their cylon vivesected open on a table with them poking things to see
          what happens. But just raping away on it to get info out of it seems, well,
          insane.

          RDM’s treatment of the Cylon’s humanity, vis-a-vi treatment of Cylon prisoners forces viewers to examine some of thier own value judgements. Other than simple questioning, is there any form of interogation could not be construed as torture? I saw a blurb on the History Channel about the interrogation of a Viet Cong agent. Let me tell you what I remember, and you decide if this was over the line?

            So far as I recall, the Viet Cong agent under threat of violence. He was placed in relatively room with white walls, floor and ceiling, with no windows, perhaps 10×15. The air condition was cranked up to max to cool the room. The interogator did this because profilers had indicated that white rooms and being cold would be unnerving , even when taken separately. During interogations, the interogator repeatedly brought up the fact that the Viet Cong agent had killed his own father. He did this because Vietnamese society places great value on honoring one’s forebearers, particularly the father. The interogator used this information to attack the agent’s ego and manhood. I think the entire process lasted about 3 days

          What do you think? Was that torture? Was it perhaps of questionable morality? Was that something that could be justified by circumstance?

        • lost says:

          Re: Wow

          I rather suspect that if we had a closer investigation of the crew of Pegaus, we’d find that it was a small number out of the whole that enjoyed the rape bit. I think we’d also find that some of the ones doing the dirty deed would be doing it to avoid repercussions, especially since it seems that the Admiral rules through fear. It’s amazing what peeople can and will do when they are afraid for their lives.

          All that said, if these guys that seem to enjoy raping the cylon all sincerely believe she has no real feelings, it makes it even more believable (and tragic, really).

          Now, consider that they are on a war ship with a rigid hierarchy and that at least one terrible thing has been done by the commander of that ship when orders were questioned. Now consider what you would do if you were ordered to do something like that, and your life depended on obeying? I don’t think most of us can honestly say what we would do. A lot of us would like to say that we wouldn’t do something like that. But are we being honest with ourselves when we say that?

          I expect the whole point of the show is to make us all think. And in that, I don’t think it could have done a better job.

          • joblo says:

            Re: Wow

            Now, consider that they are on a war ship with a rigid hierarchy and that at least one terrible thing has been done by the commander of that ship when orders were questioned. Now consider what you would do if you were ordered to do something like that, and your life depended on obeying?

            To quote the Pegasus CO: “I ordered the fracking strike!”

        • TechnoGirl says:

          Re: Wow

          The hardest thing for me to swallow though is that the Pegasus crew we are
          introduced too all like to rape a cylon for fun. I’d like to think I’d stay ‘human’ enough to not want to use my dick as a weapon or to get off on doing something like that,

          What was the name of that prison in Iraq again? ?

          Without doubt this a brilliant piece of writing … what science fiction should always be.

          Best overall writing and series to come along since B5 – imho of course.

          • valen1260 says:

            Re: Wow

            Best overall writing and series to come along since B5 – imho of course.

            Not just yours.

            • Trekkie says:

              Re: Wow

              Best overall writing and series to come along since B5 – imho of course.

              Not just yours.

              yours either ;) I agree whole heartedly.

              and it was Abu Girab, and the fact that our leader didn’t resign in disgrace over it says alot about this administration and the people it employs. While the young lady recently convicted wasn’t deserving of her punishment a lot more people should have been removed.

              • J_W_W says:

                Re: Wow

                Best overall writing and series to come along since B5 – imho of course.

                Not just yours.

                yours either ;) I agree whole heartedly.

                and it was Abu Girab, and the fact that our leader didn’t resign in disgrace over it says alot about this administration and the people it employs. While the young lady recently convicted wasn’t deserving of her punishment a lot more people should have been removed.

                One of the things that I like most about this show is that its not blatantly dictating what side is right or wrong. Both the humans and cylons are flawed. Sure what they were doing to six was evil, but then again what is the treatment that the enemy who killed billions really deserves? What about redemption, can they get it (ie. Boomer), what does that take? There were at least humans willing to fight for HER.

                There are many layers to this show and they have succeeded in the real task of keeping things really grey but they’re also not overtly saying that “oh by the way this side of things in the real world is right and the other isn’t”. There are more than two ways to view this story. In fact even all the characters have their own independent view of everything in this series (none is a true placeholder for anything in the real world). Its reference to the real world is exactly what it should be – like shadows in a mirror.

                • valen1260 says:

                  Re: Wow

                  What about redemption, can they get it (ie. Boomer), what does that take?

                  A Shanshu prophecy?

                  There are many layers to this show and they have succeeded in the real task of keeping things really grey …. Its reference to the real world is exactly what it should be – like shadows in a mirror.

                  Now that definitely sounds like some B5-quality writing.

    • TomSwiss says:

      Re: Wow

      I mentioned this to my girlfriend and she said “Just because she’s a machine doesn’t mean she doesn’t have feelings!” and I figure that actually that’s exactly what it means…
      How do you guys see this?

      You’re a machine too, buddy, even if you’re made out of meat rather than silicon. I find it no harder to beleive that Cylons or other highly advanced synthetic beings could have “real” feeling than that human meat-machines have “real” feelings.

      • Jethro says:

        Re: Wow

        You’re a machine too, buddy,

        Oh, I agree. But here’s the thing. I can write a computer program that would monitor the computer’s conditions – temprature, memory usage, etc. It would then tell you how it feels based on those conditions.

        Did I just create intelligent life? Of course not. What if I bought a human-shaped doll and stuck the computer in it? What if I put in a microphone and speakers so you could ASK it how it feels and it would SPEAK the reply?

        How far off that are the human-shaped cylons?

        Again, let me say that rape is wrong, and even in the context of this episode I think that the bad guy’s actions were wrong and I’m glad he was stopped. But the question of “when does a bunch of inanimate circuits become Life?” is still out there (:

    • paulm says:

      Re: Wow

      But I don’t think anyone had a problem back when Starbuck was beating the living daylights out of a cylon prisoner, and the only problem most people had with them shoving cylons out of an airlock was that it was a waste – they could’ve learned a lot by experimenting the heck out of them.

      How do you guys see this? And yes, in fact I /did/ sit through AI going “He’s only a ROBOT, who the heck CARES if he’s crying?”

      For me the issue is fairly clear. The action of rape relies on the fact that the target does feel it in the same way you’d expect a human to. Thus the “reasoning” that “it’s just a robot” doesn’t fly because there would be no point to performing rape on something artificial, only on something real. The rapist must be doing it to psychologically dominate the target.

      I suppose you might be able to argue differently on the torture and ejection from the airlock. It would be possible to believe it was “just a robot” and ejecting it from an airlock is a simple act of disposal. Similarly I suppose you could think that the robots were just responding to a simple, “artificial” self preservation response during torture.

      However I don’t see how either of those “get-outs” could extend to the rapes.

      I suspect the actions of the Pegasus crew will see the Galactica re-evaluating their own actions as they become aware that when you dehumanise (for lack of a better word) your enemy you dehumanise yourself.

      Did anyone notice how the Pegasus crew appeared when they first met the Galactica crew? They marched out of the pod robotically. They moved like Cylons. I don’t expect that’s a coincidence but was done to suggest their dehumanisation.

    • wht1knight says:

      Re: Wow
      Actually, I found this episode very disturbing, more so than the one where Starbuck had the other Cylon beaten severly. With Cain, the abuse of the Cylon prisoners, we are seeing humanity lose its humanity and become like machines, where the Cylons are becoming more human. I am finding it very difficult to sympathize for the humans and am starting to cheer for the Cylons.

      Serious! Let’s recap. The humans have abused prisoners, fought amongst themselves, declared martial law, lost internal discipline, and have barely been able to stay alive.

      Regarding Cain and the Pegasus, I have this thought in the back of my head that there is something more than meets the eye here. There are two possible thread (probably many more, but these are the two most likely IMHO).
      1.) The Pegasus ran and fled in battle and are cowards, trying to cover their cowardice with arrogance, bullying, and confusion.
      or
      2.) The origional Pegasus crew was captured killed, and replaced with Cylon replicants whose mission is to reduce the last of humanity to just a few core people so that can fullfil “god’s will”. Think about it, no one from Gallactica seems to be able to find someone they know on Pegasus. It just seems odd.

      To me, I see a pattern in each episode that is effectively reducing the options of the humans and Adam. In the origional series, it seemed that the crew of Gallactica can do not wrong. The revival series is giving us a crew that can barely function and depends HEAVILY of luck to just get what they need. I find it very hard that the Cyons have not wiped out the Pegasus all this time. It is a slightly superior modern ship (thus open to the Number Six virus code), with no “genius scientist”, and it has no liability of trying to protect a fleet of refugees. To the Cylons, the Pegasus is just another small nuisance.

      I did read somewhere (unofficially) that the Cain character and Pegasus ship would be around for more than two episodes. We will see what happens.

  3. pdavis says:

    Poor Episode
    Overall I think this was one of the worst episodes (in regards to the written characters). I was not looking forward to it because I thought this was the way it was going to play out. The Admiral did not seem very realistic to me at all, and the type of abuse to the prisoner did not seem logical in a military sense. Much of this writing could have been toned down and extended over several episodes to make it more palatable and believable (I do not believe the admiral in this situation would come in and reassign people that quickly and not listen to her peers, and Adoma, despite the rank difference, is certainly her peer). For what it is worth the President could have promoted Adoma above her anyway.

    I found the rape scene very disturbing. As far as we know, this Sharon has not done anything against humanity and has been more than willing to help. I’m not saying I would trust her, but I certainly wouldn’t start trying to beat information out of her when she hasn’t done anything wrong. Of course, I also don’t buy the image of her being just a “machine”. If you can’t tell them apart from humans, then they really are just enhanced humans and can have the same capabilities, fears, emotions, desires, etc.

    As far as number 6 not fighting to the death, it sounds like she killed 6 people. And they have shown some fear of dying in the past. I’m guessing that some of their extra strength comes from an adrenalin rush that can only last so long. This goes back to there not being detectable differences in their biology.

    • krilia says:

      Re: Poor Episode
      Admiral Cain wasn’t apparently interested in listening to President Roslin, so I don’t really think any promotions would change things.

      The rape scene was supposed to be disturbing. They also filmed a scene where it actually was happening when it gets interrupted, but found that this version was effective enough.

      I found Admiral Cain believable when you consider that she and her crew have been through just as much as Galactica, but without the balancing civilian side of things – they are focused on revenge rather than survival.

  4. theangrymob says:

    Ron Moore’s Commentary

    I’ve been tuning into Ron Moore’s commentary podcast for a few weeks now and it’s really insightful. Apparently a lot of material was trimmed from this episode to make it fit the 1-hour timeslot, including a subplot about how Cain feels about the President. As it stands, she just ignores the president, and that set the tone.

    They also filmed a rape sequence where Helo and the Tyrol don’t make it in time, but they still kick a## and a scene where the Chief is officially removed from his post and the Pegasus chief replaces him. Supposedly, some of those scense will be included in the “director’s cut” DVD.

    If you have a chance, check out the podcast

  5. joe__gee says:

    Heh, Admiral Cain’s people are worse than Cylons …
    Be careful what you wish for … I was amazed it took Adama so long to crack. On the other hand, Roslin immediately picked up on the Admiral, at the dinner, when Cain talked about doing a random FTL jump with no calculations. If you Tivo’d this, watch Roslin watching Cain. Damn, Mary McDonnell is a great actress.

    Is the Pegasus a newer generation than the Galactica? I notice their exteriors are different. I wonder if it has the newer Vipers? I also wonder how many nukes they have left?

    Spoilerish conjecture: Who else here thinks that Galactica will be saved by Starbuck’s spying revelation? I suspect that whatever the mystery object might be (a creche/factory/nursery for making new Cylons?), the threat from it will be enough to make the crew of the Pegasus pause. I’m also thinking that Cain’s redistribution of Galactica’s crew will be more than sufficient to break her hold on the crew of the Pegasus. I think her situation with her crew is too fragile to withstand much outside influence. When the nutty/homicidal Admiral was their only chance at survival, her crew stood beside her, but now that they have an alternative, and they talk with the better treated crew of the Galactica they won’t be in such a hurry to support her, much less to turn on other surviving humans.

    As for the rape of Six, the officers guarding her did mention to Baltar that she had killed seven of their men. I suspect once she had been subdued she was sufficiently restrained to accomodate her rapists. The way she was laying there I assumed physical trauma: an intentional brain injury, an experiment performed on a living subject, lobotomization. I was surprised she was so psychologically fragile, although I think we are being lead to believe that her torture was incredibly cruel and intense. Some humans are worse than the monster Cylons.

    I think this arc will play out that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, with an unexpected enemy being the “friend.” I suspect that whatever the big object is that’s the part of the Cylon fleet, it will somehow lead to the undoing of the Admiral, and the destruction of the Pegasus.

    Back to Six, I kept wondering during Baltar’s “I once loved a Cylon just like you” speech why there wasn’t monitoring equipment in Six’s cell. Nowadays in virtually every holding cell in the U.S. there’s at least video surveillance, not to mention some sort of audio monitoring. One would think in a military holding cell, especially one being used for interrogation purposes, that microphones and video cameras would be in every nook and cranny. If Baltar is *not* on tape professing his love for Six, I would hope the writers have a damned good explanation, or this will be my major stumbling point for this episode.


    -Joe G.

    • lost says:

      Re: Heh, Admiral Cain’s people are worse than Cylons …

      Back to Six, I kept wondering during Baltar’s “I once loved a Cylon just like you” speech why there wasn’t monitoring equipment in Six’s cell. Nowadays in virtually every holding cell in the U.S. there’s at least video surveillance, not to mention some sort of audio monitoring. One would think in a military holding cell, especially one being used for interrogation purposes, that microphones and video cameras would be in every nook and cranny. If Baltar is *not* on tape professing his love for Six, I would hope the writers have a damned good explanation, or this will be my major stumbling point for this episode.


      -Joe G.

      Replying to the above spoiler: I thought about that too. Then it occurred to me that anyone monitoring it might think Baltar was playing mind games with her to get her to trust him. It’s not an unreasonable tactic, after all. Of course, there might be something more to it that that, too.

    • Antti Helin says:

      Re: Heh, Admiral Cain’s people are worse than Cylons …
      AFAIK Galactica is an older model that was being phased out. The last of its kind, set to become a museum ship when the Cylons attacked. One reason the Galactica survived the attack was, IIRC, that it had older technology, which the Cylons could not infiltrate. That’s why Gaeta’s plan to link up the computers allowed the Cylons to infiltrate the system – the system become advanced and powerful enough to accommodate their “logic bomb”. What bothers me in this case, however, is how the heck has the Pegasus managed against the Cylons, if it is newer technology? Have they artifically dumbed it down, like they have done with the new-gen Vipers?

      • nkuzmik says:

        Re: Heh, Admiral Cain’s people are worse than Cylons …

        AFAIK Galactica is an older model that was being phased out. The last of its kind, set to become a museum ship when the Cylons attacked. One reason the Galactica survived the attack was, IIRC, that it had older technology, which the Cylons could not infiltrate. That’s why Gaeta’s plan to link up the computers allowed the Cylons to infiltrate the system – the system become advanced and powerful enough to accommodate their “logic bomb”. What bothers me in this case, however, is how the heck has the Pegasus managed against the Cylons, if it is newer technology? Have they artifically dumbed it down, like they have done with the new-gen Vipers?

        About Gaeta’s little network… How did the Cylons know Glactica would be vulnerable to electronic warfar this time around, or do they try that trick every time?

        But the real question is “How did the network make them vulnerable?” Logic would suggest that the virus first infiltrated through the communications system. From there the network let it spread all over the place. Normally the com system is isolated from everything else, but it is still vulnerable. Does this mean they wipe and reformat the com systems after every engagement?

        • babasyzygy says:

          Re: Heh, Admiral Cain’s people are worse than Cylons …

          Normally the com system is isolated from everything else, but it is still
          vulnerable. Does this mean they wipe and reformat the com systems after
          every engagement?

          It doesn’t need to be anything like that – the comm system itself is probably
          too “stupid” to be infected.

          Imagine a telephone and a PC… you can use the telephone just fine, but if
          you hook it up to the PC (via an accoustic coupler (how’s that for old
          technology?)) the PC becomes vulnerable to infection from the phone.

    • valen1260 says:

      Re: Heh, Admiral Cain’s people are worse than Cylons …

      Damn, Mary McDonnell is a great actress.

      Yes she is!

      Is the Pegasus a newer generation than the Galactica? I notice their exteriors are different.

      If you watched the (awfully predictably) Stargate Atlantis epsiode "Aurora", the Pegasus looks like a younger, less-decrepit version of the Ancient’s recon ship (which I originally though looked a bit like Galactica). You might have also noticed that the Magistrate’s building in "Condemned" looked a lot like The 4400 Center. Seems Atlantis keeps a cheap budget by borrowing CG and sets. I’m expecting fanfic any day now.

      Back to Six, I kept wondering during Baltar’s "I once loved a Cylon just like you" speech why there wasn’t monitoring equipment in Six’s cell.

      I wondered the same thing, and I don’t think it’s as easily excused as lost posits. Good conjecture, btw.

      • lost says:

        Re: Heh, Admiral Cain’s people are worse than Cylons …

        Back to Six, I kept wondering during Baltar’s “I once loved a Cylon just like you” speech why there wasn’t monitoring equipment in Six’s cell.

        I wondered the same thing, and I don’t think it’s as easily excused as lost posits. Good conjecture, btw.

        As I said, there’s probably more to it. I expect a director’s cut would be a bit clearer there and hopefully future episodes will clarify that point. For all we know, the Insane Admiral is simply incompetant or given the activities of the Pegasus crew, the monitoring devices are disabled. Who knows. Now I think about it more, it’s far more likely that nobody is watching the monitors and when they do, there’ll be fallout. Then we could see an attempt to use my excuse to get off. :)

    • TechnoGirl says:

      Re: I see you conjecture and raise you…

      Spoilerish conjecture:

      I agree with your ideas re: the recon mission…Checkov’s Law and all that re: the Blackbird.

      My spoilerish conjecture is this:
      What’s the Pegasus’ main weakness with regard to BSG?
      Answer: newer ship and more prone to virus attack…. annnnddd…. we already know that Sharon can plug into the shio and launch virus attacks against other ships and we also know she has a REAL GOOD reason to really hate the Pegasus crew… soooooo ….. I see another collaboration between Adama and Sharon – this one possibly drawing them together more and her gaining more trust from him…orrrrr….her bargaining to save the ship in exchange for more freedom….

      Those are my guesses ;)

      Superb episode writing here…kudos to *all* the writers!

      TechnoGirl

      • joe__gee says:

        Re: I see you conjecture and raise you…

        I see another collaboration between Adama and Sharon – this one possibly drawing them together more and her gaining more trust from him…orrrrr….her bargaining to save the ship in exchange for more freedom….

        Good point!!!

        My other question would be: will the Pegasus survive the upcoming conflict to join the fleet? I don’t remember the Pegasus plotline from the original series (although I am not certain that really matters much to these writers.)

        It seemed to me that this episode was a more clever form of the typical flashback episode, where the audience is *usually* guided through What Has Taken Place So Far by video clips. Of course, the typical flashback episode serves no purpose other than to save money. BG’s writers review what has happened to forward the story.

        Anyways, in this case we are given flashbacks, through logs, and the conduct of the fleet / Galactica’s crew / the civilian leadership is subjected to scrutiny by the more rigid heirarchy of the traditional Colonial military. It’s interesting to me how much the Colonial Fleet have been changed by their forced interactions over the past several months, compared to the Pegasus, which was never forced to compromise with other interests or agencies.

        -Joe

        • Dark Nexus says:

          Re: I see you conjecture and raise you…

          My other question would be: will the Pegasus survive the upcoming conflict to join the fleet? I don’t remember the Pegasus plotline from the original series (although I am not certain that really matters much to these writers.)

          Original plotline had Cain charging Baltar’s Baseship at the end, and having 2 other Baseships exploding very close to the Pegasus. The Pegasus was not visible to the Galactica Vipers due to the debris from the 2 Baseships. The hope was that he went back out into the unknown to continue his hit and run tactics, with the Cylons thinking he had been destroyed.

          • nkuzmik says:

            Re: I see you conjecture and raise you…

            My other question would be: will the Pegasus survive the upcoming conflict to join the fleet? I don’t remember the Pegasus plotline from the original series (although I am not certain that really matters much to these writers.)

            Original plotline had Cain charging Baltar’s Baseship at the end, and having 2 other Baseships exploding very close to the Pegasus. The Pegasus was not visible to the Galactica Vipers due to the debris from the 2 Baseships. The hope was that he went back out into the unknown to continue his hit and run tactics, with the Cylons thinking he had been destroyed.

            What made the original Living Legend episodes great was Cain. He was exactly what the title describes, a legend. But Larson made it very clear that Cain was not the right man for the job of guarding the fleet. His personality and skill made him better suited for offensive tactics. In Cain’s mind the best way to defend the fleet was to destroy the threat. Perhaps his focus on that goal blinded him to the reality of the situation.

            What made the episode so powerful were Cain’s actions at the end. I don’t recal the exact sequence of events, but the presence of Pegasus caused the Cylons to bring in more Basestars. The only escape for the fleet entailed one or both of the Battlestars engaging and delaying the Cylons while the fleet ran. This was still 2-1 odds. Even if one of the Battlestars survived, it would likely be too damaged to effectively protect the fleet. Like Leonidas at Thermopylae, Cain turned to face the Cylons. The basestars had no choice but to stop and fight Pegasus.

            As others have mentioned, Glactica’s Vipers were unable to confirm that Pegasus was destroyed. Everybody assumed that to be the case, but on some level everyone wanted to believe that Cain and Pegasus were still out there, still fighting.

            People like underdogs, and people like heros. And as much as we hate to see a hero fall, there is something incredably powerful and moving about a couragous last stand. How can a viewer feel nothing when a character who’s only wish is to preserve the lives of those under his protection, realizes that his flock’s safety can only be purchased with his own lifeblood. In the end it all comes down to courage. Perhaps Gillbert K. Chesterton said it best, “Courage is almost a contradiction in terms. It means a strong desire to live taking the form of readiness to die.”

            All that said, when Admiral Cain dies… unless she does a major 180, my response will be along the lines of BOO-YAH!

  6. x00 says:

    Pegasus – The Ship
    I’m surprised no one’s mentioned this, so perhaps I’m just being delusional or my memory is failing me.

    Was it me or did the Pegasus look like the Battlestar Galactica (and presumable the Pegasus) from the original series ?

    • Dark Nexus says:

      Re: Pegasus – The Ship

      I’m surprised no one’s mentioned this, so perhaps I’m just being delusional or my memory is failing me.

      Was it me or did the Pegasus look like the Battlestar Galactica (and presumable the Pegasus) from the original series ?

      Nose section was too large, and the central shaft too short. It looks like the Galactica and Pegasus from the original series about as much as the new Galactica does, maybe less.

      Mind you, some of it’s features are closer to that original design than the Galactica. A more pronounced engine block, for example.

      • joblo says:

        Re: Pegasus – The Ship

        Mind you, some of it’s features are closer to that original design than the Galactica. A more pronounced engine block, for example.

        Along with the V6 (The engine block) the oversized tailpipes and the super-sized wing-like spoiler and lowered suspension made it…oh..wait.. nevermind.

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