16 replies on “Ron Moore talks BSG S3”

  1. rednecktek says:

    Why is this necessary?
    Although I’m positive that the show is going to continue to keep the standards up for the rest of TV,

    From the article (once you click to the original):

    I’d like to at least establish that homosexuality exists in the Galactica world, but I’ve yet to hit on a way of doing it that doesn’t feel like it flashes a neon light saying, "See, here’s our gay show!" I think this is a valid thing to do in the series and I’m somewhat ashamed that I’ve been unimaginative in this area. All I can do is promise to keep it under discussion.

    Why is this necessary? What could this possibly add to the show?

    Sorry Ron, but if you have to invent a reason for it to be there, it doesn’t belong.

    • viktor_haag says:

      Re: Why is this necessary?

      Why is this necessary? What could this possibly add to the show?

      Why is all the hetero sex and affection in the show necessary? What could it possibly add to the show?

      • J_W_W says:

        Re: Why is this necessary?

        Why is this necessary? What could this possibly add to the show?

        Why is all the hetero sex and affection in the show necessary? What could it possibly add to the show?

        I agree with both of you. The stories on Galactica are strong enough without the sex. The episodes with the gratuitious sex are the ones that fall flat in my household. (Bottom spot there going to the Appolo ep. last year with the prostitute).

    • joe__gee says:

      Re: Why is this necessary?

      Although I’m positive that the show is going to continue to keep the standards up for the rest of TV,

      From the article (once you click to the original):

      I’d like to at least establish that homosexuality exists in the Galactica world, but I’ve yet to hit on a way of doing it that doesn’t feel like it flashes a neon light saying, "See, here’s our gay show!" I think this is a valid thing to do in the series and I’m somewhat ashamed that I’ve been unimaginative in this area. All I can do is promise to keep it under discussion.

      Why is this necessary? What could this possibly add to the show?

      Sorry Ron, but if you have to invent a reason for it to be there, it doesn’t belong.

      Agreed, and yet it’s like having people of Asian and African descent on the show. They are a part of society, therefore … That being said, I agree with Moore. In a television show where the focus of the camera vis a vis the focus of the audience is directed to key events to convey a story, everything within that focus is either a key element of the story, or the people telling the story don’t know what they’re doing.

      To have Adama walk past Starbuck and Dee going at it like bunnies would make us wonder what was up. Even if it were just Specialist Expendable and his boyfriend, Specialist Only-in-This-Scene snogging in the corner, because we haven’t previously seen two male specialists going at it we would have to wonder why they are there?

      If the focus did not return to an explanation of our specialists, or our warrior chicks, we would be left hanging.

      There is no way to casually introduce this kind of thing. I could see a relationship building up over time, like Susan Ivanova and Talia Winters in B5, but that’s about the only way to do it, and it would have to be like their relationship: it would have to further the story in a way not served by any other method. Ivanova’s fear of Psicorp and Talia’s ultimate betrayal of her secret was paramount to their implied intimacy, but both stories helped advance the other.

      -Joe

      • nkuzmik says:

        Re: Why is this necessary?

        Although I’m positive that the show is going to continue to keep the standards up for the rest of TV,

        From the article (once you click to the original):

        I’d like to at least establish that homosexuality exists in the Galactica world, but I’ve yet to hit on a way of doing it that doesn’t feel like it flashes a neon light saying, "See, here’s our gay show!" I think this is a valid thing to do in the series and I’m somewhat ashamed that I’ve been unimaginative in this area. All I can do is promise to keep it under discussion.

        Why is this necessary? What could this possibly add to the show?

        Sorry Ron, but if you have to invent a reason for it to be there, it doesn’t belong.

        Agreed, and yet it’s like having people of Asian and African descent on the show. They are a part of society, therefore … That being said, I agree with Moore. In a television show where the focus of the camera vis a vis the focus of the audience is directed to key events to convey a story, everything within that focus is either a key element of the story, or the people telling the story don’t know what they’re doing.

        To have Adama walk past Starbuck and Dee going at it like bunnies would make us wonder what was up. Even if it were just Specialist Expendable and his boyfriend, Specialist Only-in-This-Scene snogging in the corner, because we haven’t previously seen two male specialists going at it we would have to wonder why they are there?

        If the focus did not return to an explanation of our specialists, or our warrior chicks, we would be left hanging.

        There is no way to casually introduce this kind of thing. I could see a relationship building up over time, like Susan Ivanova and Talia Winters in B5, but that’s about the only way to do it, and it would have to be like their relationship: it would have to further the story in a way not served by any other method. Ivanova’s fear of Psicorp and Talia’s ultimate betrayal of her secret was paramount to their implied intimacy, but both stories helped advance the other.

        -Joe

        First, I have to disagree with rednecktek. Author’s often have put a fair amount of thought and effort into including a what is ultimately a very valuable plot or character point.

        Secondly, this show actually has a built in narrative device that can spin this kind of story on it ear. If RDM hasn’t thought of what I’m thinking of, he needs to gimme a call.

        RDM has used BSG to mess with concepts like "humanity" and "identity." This would simply be using sexual orientation to keep asking questions. We’ve already started to establish that a person’s origin isn’t always as important as their choices, vis a vi Boomer v2 and her choice to help the colonials on a number of occasions. They’ve already asked the question, "Does who a person chooses to take as a lover reflect their worth as a person?"

        • joe__gee says:

          Re: Why is this necessary?

          Although I’m positive that the show is going to continue to keep the standards up for the rest of TV,

          From the article (once you click to the original):

          I’d like to at least establish that homosexuality exists in the Galactica world, but I’ve yet to hit on a way of doing it that doesn’t feel like it flashes a neon light saying, "See, here’s our gay show!" I think this is a valid thing to do in the series and I’m somewhat ashamed that I’ve been unimaginative in this area. All I can do is promise to keep it under discussion.

          Why is this necessary? What could this possibly add to the show?

          Sorry Ron, but if you have to invent a reason for it to be there, it doesn’t belong.

          Agreed, and yet it’s like having people of Asian and African descent on the show. They are a part of society, therefore … That being said, I agree with Moore. In a television show where the focus of the camera vis a vis the focus of the audience is directed to key events to convey a story, everything within that focus is either a key element of the story, or the people telling the story don’t know what they’re doing.

          To have Adama walk past Starbuck and Dee going at it like bunnies would make us wonder what was up. Even if it were just Specialist Expendable and his boyfriend, Specialist Only-in-This-Scene snogging in the corner, because we haven’t previously seen two male specialists going at it we would have to wonder why they are there?

          If the focus did not return to an explanation of our specialists, or our warrior chicks, we would be left hanging.

          There is no way to casually introduce this kind of thing. I could see a relationship building up over time, like Susan Ivanova and Talia Winters in B5, but that’s about the only way to do it, and it would have to be like their relationship: it would have to further the story in a way not served by any other method. Ivanova’s fear of Psicorp and Talia’s ultimate betrayal of her secret was paramount to their implied intimacy, but both stories helped advance the other.

          -Joe

          First, I have to disagree with rednecktek. Author’s often have put a fair amount of thought and effort into including a what is ultimately a very valuable plot or character point.

          Secondly, this show actually has a built in narrative device that can spin this kind of story on it ear. If RDM hasn’t thought of what I’m thinking of, he needs to gimme a call.

          RDM has used BSG to mess with concepts like "humanity" and "identity." This would simply be using sexual orientation to keep asking questions. We’ve already started to establish that a person’s origin isn’t always as important as their choices, vis a vi Boomer v2 and her choice to help the colonials on a number of occasions. They’ve already asked the question, "Does who a person chooses to take as a lover reflect their worth as a person?"

          Who redneckteck?

          vis-à-vis, face to face, from French.

          :)

          -Joe

      • vanyel says:

        Re: Why is this necessary?

        Even if it were just Specialist Expendable and his boyfriend, Specialist Only-in-This-Scene snogging in the corner, because we haven’t previously seen two male specialists going at it we would have to wonder why they are there?

        Why? You’ve got to have background extras all over the place anyhow. It could be something as simple as a background photo in an adjacent locker (though that would probably be too subtle to be effective), or the couples waiting in line for the observation room. There are character development stories all over the place, it’s one of the things that makes galactica good. Someone having relationship problems that require CAG intervention. Being gay wouldn’t be an issue there, it’s there because it’s an issue here. Now if they’d *really* wanted to do it right, Chief and Helo would have been bi and they’d solve the sharon problem by forming a threesome.

        • Damien says:

          Re: Why is this necessary?

          Now if they’d *really* wanted to do it right, Chief and Helo would have been bi and they’d solve the sharon problem by forming a threesome.

          Someone has recently seen Chasing Amy, huh?

          Damien

        • joe__gee says:

          Re: Why is this necessary?

          Why? You’ve got to have background extras all over the place anyhow. It could be something as simple as a background photo in an adjacent locker (though that would probably be too subtle to be effective), or the couples waiting in line for the observation room. There are character development stories all over the place, it’s one of the things that makes galactica good. Someone having relationship problems that require CAG intervention. Being gay wouldn’t be an issue there, it’s there because it’s an issue here. Now if they’d *really* wanted to do it right, Chief and Helo would have been bi and they’d solve the sharon problem by forming a threesome.

          First of all let me say I am not a self-hating homosexual. I am gay, and I’m comfortable within myself. Also I am not attacking you, or your beliefs. I respect them, I just don’t agree. The couples standing in line for the observation deck are an excellent idea.

          Back to your "why"? At any given time in American society there are circuses and carnival workers moving from town to town. In the summer they’re up north. In the winter they’re down south, but most of the time they’re always around on the move.

          In the Galactica ‘verse it stands to reason that performers would also be in transit between the twelve colonies pretty much all the time. Why haven’t we seen any actors, clowns, mimes, or singers in BSG? We can assume they are there, but what purpose would Cirque du Soleil have appearing on an episode of BSG serve?

          I agree with Moore, to simply throw two characters together to have a gay show would be saying "look at our gay show." I get enough of that on regular network TV. At best I consider it to be manipulative. At worst it’s tasteless, because the characters are typically either limp-wristed "Will and Grace" Jack types, femme fatale Sharon Stone lesbians, or go-get-em who-would-ever-guess-he’s-gay alpha-male type men, none of whom represent 95% of my gay friends. They’re still stereotypes.

          Again, if it serves a purpose then it belongs. If it’s not blatant, then sure it could work — I love that same sex couples waiting in line for the observation deck idea. On the other hand exactly what purpose would a Chief, Boomer, and Helo three-way do other than to affirm to heterosexuals that our orientation is indeed about sex (we’ll try anything, even sleep with women, to get our jollies. To me that’s only a short step to the right of "all gays are pedophiles.") It wouldn’t do anything for the story. I may be gay but I have morals. I’ll assume this as well of my gay brothers and sisters. :)

          Back to what I was sharing earlier, the focus of the audience is manipulated by the show’s director. Anything placed within that focus is fair game for the story. In season one, you remember the pilots touching the picture as they left their barracks for combat? We debated the meaning of that ritual in here. We noticed it.

          If Moore were to start placing pictures in places where they would be noticed, they would be noticed. Because the style of this show’s story-telling has been so economical and efficient, what Moore has done is limit his ability to do exactly what you are suggesting.

          This whole thing was brought to Moore’s attention. I don’t assume any nefarious intent on his part. I suspect he may very well play with ambiguous or gay orientation in the future, but in keeping with the quality of the program to this point I expect it to be subtle, I expect it to be logical, and I expect it to be well-executed by writers and cast — if it serves any purpose other than to parade dancing poodles across our screens.

          I respect your point of view. I understand where you are coming from. I still tend to side with Moore, and if dancing poodles appear on my show I will howl in protest as I immediately and permanently switch channels. :)

          Peace,

          Joe G.

    • Damien says:

      Re: Why is this necessary?

      Why is this necessary? What could this possibly add to the show?
      Sorry Ron, but if you have to invent a reason for it to be there, it doesn’t belong.

      I think that’s his point, he doesn’t want to throw in a "hey, we’re gay" episode just to appease a certain audience, but it sounds like he doesn’t want to make it seem like nobody in BSG is gay. Ultimately, if the story ends up bringing up a situation where it makes sense then it may happen; beyond that those looking for it should ask themselves whether it really matters, whether every story is required to have gay characters?

      Also, they should consider that the majority of humanity was blown to h-e-doublehockeysticks and most of those who were left were military, and we all know how gay the military is (i.e. they’re not much), so ultimately I think there are proportionally much fewer gay humans alive in BSG than there would have been before the attacks.

      Damien

      • Babbster says:

        Re: Why is this necessary?

        Also, they should consider that the majority of humanity was blown to h-e-doublehockeysticks and most of those who were left were military…

        Actually, the majority of humans remaining aren’t in the military. In fact, that was one of the major problems faced by Galactica before Pegasus came along – they had to train replacements virtually from scratch.

        /end OT nitpicking :)

      • Timeshredder says:

        Re: Why is this necessary?

        Also, they should consider that the majority of humanity was blown to h-e-doublehockeysticks and most of those who were left were military, and we all know how gay the military is (i.e. they’re not much), so ultimately I think there are proportionally much fewer gay humans alive in BSG than there would have been before the attacks.

        Well, our version of the military, historically, has actively discriminated against gays and lesbians, which likely limits their numbers and definitely keeps them closeted. We don’t know if this would apply to BSG’s universe or not, but it would be interesting to find out. (For the record, of five ex-military people– served their time, all discharged honorably– in my immediate circle of acquaintances, one is gay. That’s a small sample but the results are higher than would be predicted by statistics).

        How do the "gods" feel about sexual orientation in their religion? Do they condemn same-sex orientation, as many Christians do, or does their version of Zeus in fact have a Ganymede? It seems to me it wouldn’t be difficult for the topic to come up naturally in this series, in any number of ways. But, as many have said already, it shouldn’t feel forced.

        • nkuzmik says:

          Re: Why is this necessary?

          How do the "gods" feel about sexual orientation in their religion? Do they condemn same-sex orientation, as many Christians do, or does their version of Zeus in fact have a Ganymede? It seems to me it wouldn’t be difficult for the topic to come up naturally in this series, in any number of ways. But, as many have said already, it shouldn’t feel forced.

          How the gods feel is one question… How does the Baltar Admin. feel about it? Rosalind banned abortion, citing the population crisis. In the coldest, most clinical sense, a homosexual relationship is a waste of healthy bodies. Yes, they can do surogacy and what not, but every time a person is intimate with a member of the other gender, there is a chance of pregnancy. Unless I slept through high school bio, this just doesn’t happen "accidentally" with homosexual couples.

          Moore could play it from that angle. "I don’t care who you cuddle up to at night, but if you stick it anywhere, make sure there is a chance of a baby otherwise its just wasted sperm." Like I said cold and clinical.

          Tell me Baltar wouldn’t say something that stupid. Okay, maybe Tigh might say it too….

          • Timeshredder says:

            Re: Why is this necessary?

            H Rosalind banned abortion, citing the population crisis. In the coldest, most clinical sense, a homosexual relationship is a waste of healthy bodies….

            Moore could play it from that angle. "I don’t care who you cuddle up to at night, but if you stick it anywhere, make sure there is a chance of a baby otherwise its just wasted sperm." Like I said cold and clinical.

            Tell me Baltar wouldn’t say something that stupid. Okay, maybe Tigh might say it too….

            I don’t buy it. We’ve seen that they have pilots of both sexes living in close proximity. We’ve been shown that they sometimes have sexual relationships. There’s no way they wouldn’t have birth control measures established, especially now. They need new people, yes, but they also need many functional pilots. Heck, push it a little further in the cold, clinical, Spartan direction, and you could make a case for advocating same-sex relationships among the military (I wouldn’t go this route. Just saying…)

            And while there’s a shortage of people and pilots, "waste of sperm" doesn’t exist, unless their physiology is really, really different from ours. And the show seems to make the assumption that these humans are just like us. Exobiogically this is silly, but dramatically it is an intelligent decision.

            As for what Baltar might say, all bets are off. ; )

  2. Babbster says:

    MY Question
    What part of the BSG "fanbase" still cares about the original series, as discussed in the last question of the interview? I liked the original (before Galactica 1980, of course, which even an 8-year-old could figure out was total dreck) as a youngster, but that stuff is so flawed on later viewings, and the current series is so much better in comparison, that I can’t even watch the originals again. I’ve got to think that doing anything with the original property at this point is doomed not only to failure but also to sucking.

    • Timeshredder says:

      Galactica, eh?
      Canadians who don’t download won’t have to wait months to catch BSG this year; Space starts its broadcast of the current seasons October 7, only a day after the U.S. airing.

      For some reason, they’re also rerunning Buck Rogers in the 25th Century from the 1980s and the Hilarious House of Frightenstein from the 70s. Seriously, does anyone want to see reruns of The Hilarious House of Frightenstein?

      The Space Fall schedule may be found here.

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