Torchwood Discussion: “Immortal Sins”

This week felt more like Torchwood, certainly gave us more of Jack, introduced an alien, and….

This week, we want your reviews.

17 replies on “Torchwood Discussion: “Immortal Sins””

    • Yup, that’s about my rating too. Did we *really* need to spend all that screen time with Jack and Angelo, let alone have so much of it spent in the bedroom? I don’t think Kiersten’s going to be all that happy either. Our first (and only?) alien and it gets wasted without any apparent contribution to the overall plot, which is starting to look like it might have an entirely terrestrial origin after all. I suppose there is always the possibility that the Three Families had some “help” – that alien had to come from somewhere.

      • Absolutely we needed all the time with Jack and Angelo. See my comment below – we need to know that Jack had real feelings for the guy.

        As for the aliens, the Three Wise Men might’ve been the non-humans Jack mentioned earlier.

        And really… so what if there are no aliens? So what if it’s entirely terrestrial? I’ve been meaning to tell Kiersten (and I will if she shows up and misses this comment) that I’d like to direct people to a Twilight Zone episode named The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street. Aliens are NOT essential.

        • I quite agree about the lack of aliens, it’s just that, like Kiersten, this series isn’t really living up to expectations for me. I’m not quite sure what it is, especially since I’m enjoying the general plot and gradual revelation of the nature of the miracle, but for some reason Miracle Day hasn’t really hooked me like the earlier series did.

          C’est la vie, I guess.

        • No, aliens are not essential, but I’d like to see more of the alien technology that Torchwood was built upon.

          More than the lenses.
          More than the virus that wipes out the word Torchwood from the net.

          Torchwood is based on a science fiction story. Where’s my Sci Fi?
          It’s like SyFy got ahold of it and made it into WWE.

          • To me it’s more about the story, about good Drama. If I just want aliens I can go watch the bazillion low-budget (and even lower plot) ‘movies’ SyFy puts out with all the money they saved by cancelling Farscape (yeah I’m still bitter!)

            We’ve got a story here about something very strange happening, and rather than focusing on which aliens reversed what polarity on which tachyon beams, we’re focusing on how people react to it, how it’s affecting mankind. We’re still getting good drama, and being told an interesting story. To me, that’s a lot more important than an Alien of the Week – and since we’re getting an actual arch here it’d be hard to stick one of those in.

            This season is not perfect – for one thing Olivia Hallinan is supposed to be in it but either she wasn’t or I missed her. And if they make another series, for the love of all that is holy PLEASE do not let an American network have anything to do with it. But other than that, hey, it’s good drama. It doesn’t need an alien every week, it doesn’t need aliens to be responsible for the miracle – as long as they tell the story in an engaging way.

      • Yeah, that alien wasn’t even worth the special effects money used on blowing it up!!
        *sad sigh*

  1. Things that at least American Torchwood is doing:

    *Acknowledge that the Doctor exists!
    *33% more gay
    *creepy disturbing stuff
    *A lead (sort of) Jack who’s sort of a dick

  2. I really enjoyed this episode. It was very heavy on the gay thing but seriously, would that much intimacy have even shown on the radar if it was hetero? We NEEDED to know than Angelo wasn’t just a fling for Jack – Jack /is/ kind of a slut, after all – and in the era where that was taking place the bedroom was really the only place they could actually talk about it. I actually found the initial seduction scene to be fantastic. Nothing like seducing a guy by talking about what you’d do to a girl!

    And the whole Jack, uh, murder scene? We usually think “Oh, Jack can’t die.” but that whole ordeal made it clear that, yes, he can die. He does die. Often and agonisingly. But then he comes back which is also less than a calm and stressless thing… and to come back to life only to find people KILLLING YOU AGAIN, and again, and again… and harvesting your BLOOD… man.

    I don’t know about you but I really, REALLY wanted him to forgive Angelo. But I can’t say I blame him for leaving him. I’m actually half-surprised he didn’t (at least) punch him.

    I recall a comment last time round saying “Gwen would never spoiler-tag”, and I assume that was about tazering or betraying Jack. I actually found the interplay between the two to be ENTIRELY in character. Over the past few seasons of Torchwood it has been fairly obvious that there’s really a very loose loyalty. They’ve all come pretty close to betrayal on many, many occasions and they don’t really readily accept Jack’s authority. I thought their making up at the end was perfect.

    And now we kinda know how the miracle started. Jilted Angelo got together with the Three Wise Men and a pint of Jack’s blood… question is, why? To get back at Jack, or to get Jack back? Or is Angelo a pawn, too? I am contemplating saving up the remaining episodes and watching them all in a row…

    • That Gwen spoiler tag was about Gwen and Jack (I wrote it), and yes, when we saw the full interplay, it really WAS our old Gwen and Jack. I was pleased at the end when they said “I meant everything I said” and “me too”

      The murder scene broke my heart, but we had to see it to see the three. I know they are going to come into play with the miracle. It was emphasized too much.

      What I was glad about is that they handled the “new” old relationship so well. I mean, so many fans are upset about Ianto, that they couldn’t introduce someone new, but they COULD (and did very nicely) look back at a previous relationship that was likely just as caring.

      Ianto always said he wasn’t gay. He just loved Jack. This man was gay and had been with other men. It was a paring of two men who knew themselves a lot better than Ianto knew himself. (I really miss Ianto.. )

      I’ve seen previews for next week. I think, once again, that Angelo made a mistake and that he will be full of regrets.

      I could see religion coming into play.. the interchange about how Angelo feels about God and that God should still love him was a nice thought, but, I’ve read how Moffat feels about religion and Christianity … and I could see them behind the entire Miracle Day plot. They have the money and they would/could see Jack as a threat to their belief system.

      Likely I’m wrong, but I could certainly see that.. LOL
      But I do enjoy conspiracy theories when it comes to the old ways of the Catholic Church in particular….

      EXTREMELY disappointed in the alien. *sigh*
      The plot, likely, is going to be completely human based and there won’t be any more aliens.

      That being said, I loved the Gwen and Jack interplay. I loved that Esther and Rex figured things out and had bit parts but did them SOOO well.

      It was great finding out more of Jack. I loved that. And wow, Starz sure let loose with the adult themes.. LOL
      Yeah, Jack is a slut. But ya gotta love him for it!
      Okay, for the first time since this series started, I’m actually kinda excited to see what happens.
      Definitely not happy, but, it finally piqued my interest.

      • Ok, I didn’t go into your spoiler tags (and thanks so much for using them, I despise spoilers!) so I obviously didn’t read your ENTIRE comment (;

        I’m still a bit bemused by the alien thing – is it that it’s not “the same Torchwood” thing? But for that matter, series 2 was different from series 1, and Children of Earth was way the hell different (and fantastic). Heck, when Torchwood started people said it wasn’t Doctor Who enough.

        Now if they completely changed it into a 30-minute Sitcom, yeah, I’d be mad. But so long as they’re telling an engaging story in an engaging way, I’m happy. Aliens or no aliens (although I’m betting the Three Wise Men are aliens).

        I’m waiting to see (and if this was spoilered PLEASE don’t tell me!) if Angelo is… he’d have to be at least in his 90s by now… unless he’s been, I dunno, drinking Jack’s blood all this time or something (;

    • And the whole Jack, uh, murder scene? We usually think “Oh, Jack can’t die.” but that whole ordeal made it clear that, yes, he can die. He does die. Often and agonisingly. But then he comes back which is also less than a calm and stressless thing… and to come back to life only to find people KILLLING YOU AGAIN, and again, and again… and harvesting your BLOOD… man.

      Sounds like that was good practice for The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords.

  3. Captain Jack Harkness used to be described as bisexual or overtly ambiguous as to his sexual preferences. This series is (so far) pushing him way too far to the gay side, and it’s detracting from the story with the explicit scenes.
    Mekhi Pfifer doesn’t make a very believable CIA agent, either. I would have much rather seen him change places with Dr. Vega in the incinerator.
    overall, i would say the new series is pretty good, and it’s made me return to the older episodes to catch up on what I missed, as I haven’t been watching it regularly.

    • I think the term used to describe Jack was “omni-sexual”, and that’s in the sense that it’s not limited to humans; IIRC. “Slut” doesn’t really encompass the full scope of Jack’s broad/open minded approach to sex, nor does “it has a pulse” for that matter…

      Agreed about Mekhi Pfifer, but hey, it’s entertainment – if he was a real agent he’d probably spend half of every episode doing paperwork. Even so, the constant flip-flopping between “I’m mortally wounded and this really hurts” and “Oh, is that bleeding again. Can I have a new shirt?” is getting a bit irritating.

    • I don’t like Rex either and I would prefer not to see Jack flirting with a dog or something…

      Sorry, couldn’t resist.

      Jack has flirted with Esther, flirted with Dr. Vega, and, as most of us have agreed, he is omni and he is slut. BUT, he has a heart too, it’s just been broken too many times.

      We don’t know for sure which incarnation thru human history this was, but we do know that he was likely a lot younger than he is now and new to the live-forever game.

      The thief was handsome, tough, smart and creative. Naturally, Jack likes the bad boys.. :)

      And the barman was a fling.

      Either way, would love to see some Aliens that Jack could flirt with, but it doesn’t seem that there is going to be any aliens other than the pathetic flashback…


    This is the best episode since the premiere, with an engaging story and superior pacing. It should have come two or three weeks ago.


    Characters still acting like idiots at key times. The entire Miracle situation might have been avoided if Jack had given his lengthy expository speech to his partner after they’d killed the parasites and made a clear escape. Why does a man with lifetimes of experience have the strategic thinking, when it pleases the writers, of Dr. Evil?


    People wanted to see a Visitor from another planet. I can’t wait to see what role the Bajorans played in the Miracle.

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