Battlestar Galactica: The Hand of God

The Galactica finds much-needed fuel– but the Cylons already have a refinery there.

Update: if, like y42, you’ve been carefully avoiding a certain much-discussed spoiler, perhaps don’t read the yodapez18 posting.


Title: “The Hand of God”

Cast and Crew:

Edward James Olmos as Commander Adama
Jamie Bamber as Lee “Apollo” Adama
Katee Sackhoff as Kara “Starbuck” Thrace
Mary McDonnell as President Laura Roslin
Michael Hogan as Col. Tigh
James Callis as Dr. Gaius Baltar
Grace Park as Sharon “Boomer” Valerii
Tahmoh Penikett as Helo
Tricia Helfer as Number 6
Bodie Olmos as Hot Dog
Aaron Douglas as Chief Petty Officer Tyrol

Kandyse Mclure as Dualla
Paul Campbell as Billy Keikeya
Lorena Gale as Priest Elosha

Writer: David Weddle and Bradly Thompson

Director: Jeff Woolnough

Plot:

Apollo must lead a desperate mission to destroy a Cylon refinery and obtain much-needed fuel for the fleet.

On Caprica, the apparent bond between Helo and Boomer grows, as the plot becomes pregnant with potential.

High Point:

This episode creates a real sense of a battle: before, during, and after. Whatever reservations one might have about Star Warsesque space battles, this show executes them well, and it kept me interested. At its best, Galactica gives us strong drama and genuine suspense.

Also, it was nice to see Apollo get a chance to be a hero.

Low Point:

This is a strong episode, and especially welcome after last week’s entry. I will therefore repeat what has been said already: the Baltar/Six interaction grows increasingly annoying.

The Scores:

Originality: 3/6. Old plot, well-handled.

Effects: 6/6. This episode features excellent space battles.

Story: 5/6

Acting: 5/6 The scene between Starbuck and Adama in physio works well, and the actors handle the intensity and the quiet moments associated with battle.

Emotional Response: 5/6.

Production: 6/6.

Overall: 6/6

In total, “The Hand of God” receives 36/42

Questions and a Plug

1. Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon Five and, increasingly, Battlestar Galactica. Can we possibly have a successful SF series without the mysticism? Just asking….

(Yeah, I realize some of this may be Cylon mind-frackery. It’d be an interesting twist if it all were, but perhaps a bit over the top).

2. WARNING: Serious Hypothetical Spoilers for Non-Brits: If Boomer is throwing up for the reason I think she’s throwing up, isn’t it a tad early? Still, an interesting development.

The Timeshredder’s reviews can be found here.

43 replies on “Battlestar Galactica: The Hand of God”

  1. vanyel says:

    Spoiler question
    Pregnant with potential indeed ;-) That was certainly the first thought I had…

    Also, the mysticism is the low point for the entire series for me…

    • CaptainFlyingToaster says:

      Re: Spoiler question
      The “spoiler” that everyone seems to be wigging out about is spelled out
      explicitly on the SciFi Channel’s episode synopsis:
      *WARNING* : here there be spoilers: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/
      episodes/season01/110/

  2. Jethro says:

    Mysticism
    Yeah, the mysticism is kinda annoying.

    As for the ‘potential spoiler’, my girlfriend called it the second it happend… so… you know.

    Sidenote – how come we don’t get Stargate discussions?

    • Timeshredder says:

      Re: Mysticism

      Yeah, the mysticism is kinda annoying.

      Sidenote – how come we don’t get Stargate discussions?

      Stargate is someone else’s show; I don’t watch it.

      As for Galactica mysticism, three possibilities occur to me:

      1)It’s real. Pythias made accurate prophecies, and some higher power is at work.
      2)It’s entirely bogus, and the Cylons are using old prophecies to manipulate the humans. It’s an awfully huge con, though, if that’s the case
      3) The Waffle option: it’s a fake which will turn out to be real or, at least, self-fulfilling, thus leaving us wondering if it’s really real, you know, and, like, isn’t that kewl, ’cause like, what if, like, you know, like, in real life, and it makes ya think, doesn’t it?

      • Jethro says:

        Re: Mysticism

        Stargate is someone else’s show; I don’t watch it.

        Someone else’s show? Er. huh? “I don’t watch it” I understand (:

        Whatever the mysticism turns out to be in Galctica (real, imagined or a waffle-cone), one thing is certain – it’s a fairly poor plot device… nobody seems to really be enjoying it much anymore. Yeah, I know SciFi has this whole social commentary thing, but I’m getting tired of the “God Says This And God Said That” in real life, too.

        • fiziko says:

          Re: Mysticism

          Someone else’s show? Er. huh? “I don’t watch it” I
          understand (:

          Timeshredder and I live in Canada, so anything that airs on
          the sci-fi network doesn’t show up where we are, which
          makes it hard to figure out when it’s on and when we should
          post the discussions. Hitch seems to be the biggest
          Stargate nut in the group, and there’s a good chance he’ll
          have the first seven seasons on DVD shortly, so perhaps we
          can entice him into posting discussion columns for new
          episodes to go along with the upcoming reviews.

          • hitch says:

            Re: Mysticism

            Someone else’s show? Er. huh? “I don’t watch it” I
            understand (:

            Timeshredder and I live in Canada, so anything that airs on
            the sci-fi network doesn’t show up where we are, which
            makes it hard to figure out when it’s on and when we should
            post the discussions. Hitch seems to be the biggest
            Stargate nut in the group, and there’s a good chance he’ll
            have the first seven seasons on DVD shortly, so perhaps we
            can entice him into posting discussion columns for new
            episodes to go along with the upcoming reviews.

            I do believe this could be arranged.

      • J_W_W says:

        Re: Mysticism

        Yeah, the mysticism is kinda annoying.

        Sidenote – how come we don’t get Stargate discussions?

        Stargate is someone else’s show; I don’t watch it.

        As for Galactica mysticism, three possibilities occur to me:

        1)It’s real. Pythias made accurate prophecies, and some higher power is at work.
        2)It’s entirely bogus, and the Cylons are using old prophecies to manipulate the humans. It’s an awfully huge con, though, if that’s the case
        3) The Waffle option: it’s a fake which will turn out to be real or, at least, self-fulfilling, thus leaving us wondering if it’s really real, you know, and, like, isn’t that kewl, ’cause like, what if, like, you know, like, in real life, and it makes ya think, doesn’t it?

        Did anyone catch the Moses vibe when the Priestess(or whatever) was talking to the President and saying she would not reach the Promised Land, oh excuse me, Earth? Moses is all I could think at that point. I don’t think its a bad parallel as it puts an image in your mind that the President will get them there and be a great leader.

        The other thing that bugged me in this episode is that a scientist of Baltars (suspected) caliber, should be able to come up with a pretty good guess as to where to target all by himself without divine intervention. Sometimes a SWAG turns out to be right.

        As for the Star Warsiness of the episode, its definately there, but its way way better that the two Viper Swoop shot that is used over and over again for almost every space battle in the original series. When you watch the old series in large amounts it gets really obvious. Although the did composite it over alot of different backgrounds, but still. The effects for this episode were great.

        I do have one minor nit though. When Appolo makes the final shot at the refinery I had a hard time actually seeing the countermeasures being dropped. I was thinking at the time that all he’d have to do is drop some countermeasures in there and it’d blow sky high, I just had to rewind to actually spot them (a little more contrast or maybe some flaring from them would have brought them out more). Boy, thats a really minor rant on what I thought was the best episode yet.

        • GrimSean says:

          Re: Mysticism

          Did anyone catch the Moses vibe when the Priestess(or whatever) was talking to the President and saying she would not reach the Promised Land, oh excuse me, Earth? Moses is all I could think at that point. I don’t think its a bad parallel as it puts an image in your mind that the President will get them there and be a great leader.

          Yeah, I caught that. If I remember my bible-learning correctly (and it’s been a while since I took it seriously) Moses was also the only person to ever actually see God’s face, so I’m starting to wonder just how far they’ll take the similarity. It could lead to some… interesting situations, especially given how she reacted/what she did to the Cylon that Starbuck questioned.

          • coyote says:

            Re: Mysticism

            Did anyone catch the Moses vibe when the Priestess(or whatever) was talking to the President and saying she would not reach the Promised Land, oh excuse me, Earth? Moses is all I could think at that point. I don’t think its a bad parallel as it puts an image in your mind that the President will get them there and be a great leader.

            Yeah, I caught that. If I remember my bible-learning correctly (and it’s been a while since I took it seriously) Moses was also the only person to ever actually see God’s face, so I’m starting to wonder just how far they’ll take the similarity. It could lead to some… interesting situations, especially given how she reacted/what she did to the Cylon that Starbuck questioned.

            Moses was found in the reeds.

            Moses became a prince of Egypt.

            Moses led his people out of slavery.

            Moses went up Mount Ararat, found many of his people worshipping idols, and ordered them killed.

            If this was foreshadowing, the first three items point to Rosyln or Baltar (or both!) is actually a human-form Cylon. The third one is a bit of a stretch, but the Pharoh’s army did chase them until they drowned in the reed sea. (no typo).

            The fourth one… we know that the humans have a pantheistic religion. It’s hard to say how it should be interpreted.

            BTW, another explanation for the visions is that the humans will eventually travel through time and become the founders of the twelve colonies. “became” the founders?

            • J_W_W says:

              Re: Mysticism

              Did anyone catch the Moses vibe when the Priestess(or whatever) was talking to the President and saying she would not reach the Promised Land, oh excuse me, Earth? Moses is all I could think at that point. I don’t think its a bad parallel as it puts an image in your mind that the President will get them there and be a great leader.

              Yeah, I caught that. If I remember my bible-learning correctly (and it’s been a while since I took it seriously) Moses was also the only person to ever actually see God’s face, so I’m starting to wonder just how far they’ll take the similarity. It could lead to some… interesting situations, especially given how she reacted/what she did to the Cylon that Starbuck questioned.

              Moses was found in the reeds.

              Moses became a prince of Egypt.

              Moses led his people out of slavery.

              Moses went up Mount Ararat, found many of his people worshipping idols, and ordered them killed.

              If this was foreshadowing, the first three items point to Rosyln or Baltar (or both!) is actually a human-form Cylon. The third one is a bit of a stretch, but the Pharoh’s army did chase them until they drowned in the reed sea. (no typo).

              The fourth one… we know that the humans have a pantheistic religion. It’s hard to say how it should be interpreted.

              BTW, another explanation for the visions is that the humans will eventually travel through time and become the founders of the twelve colonies. “became” the founders?

              Please, if there is only ONE thing Galactica 1980 taught us, its that there should NEVER, EVER be time travel on Battlestar Galactica!!!

              Plus how would you know that your not watching Star Trek if time travel became a major plot device. I am one fan not weeping over Enterprises’ fate.

      • visionary_coward says:

        Re: Mysticism

        As for Galactica mysticism, three possibilities occur to me:

        1)It’s real. Pythias made accurate prophecies, and some higher power is at work.
        2)It’s entirely bogus, and the Cylons are using old prophecies to manipulate the humans. It’s an awfully huge con, though, if that’s the case
        3) The Waffle option: it’s a fake which will turn out to be real or, at least, self-fulfilling, thus leaving us wondering if it’s really real, you know, and, like, isn’t that kewl, ’cause like, what if, like, you know, like, in real life, and it makes ya think, doesn’t it?

        Didn’t the mystic say the prophecy applied to the President?
        Didn’t #6 say the the prophecy applied to Baltar?

        • TomSwiss says:

          Re: Mysticism

          It’s an awfully huge con, though, if that’s the case

          “They have a plan”. When the start of that plan involves nuking billions of people, a few fake miracles don’t seem out of line.

          Didn’t the mystic say the prophecy applied to the President?
          Didn’t #6 say the the prophecy applied to Baltar?

          Yep. Two different groups using the same religious writings as evidence that they’re the ones with god(s) on their side…the use of religion in the plot is (sadly) very realistic.

          BTW, regarding Baltar’s lucky guess…maybe the #6 in his head is in touch with Cylon Mission Control. (This would explain why the ship with his accuser in it was conveniently blown up some epidodes back.) She reports his guess on where to drop the bombs back to HQ, the Cylons rig it so he’s right, and Baltar’s a hero (how much so, we see in the next episode). Yes, if so, that suggests that the Cylons are willing to make a large investment in fscking with the humans.

          • J_W_W says:

            Re: Mysticism

            It’s an awfully huge con, though, if that’s the case

            “They have a plan”. When the start of that plan involves nuking billions of people, a few fake miracles don’t seem out of line.

            Didn’t the mystic say the prophecy applied to the President?
            Didn’t #6 say the the prophecy applied to Baltar?

            Yep. Two different groups using the same religious writings as evidence that they’re the ones with god(s) on their side…the use of religion in the plot is (sadly) very realistic.

            BTW, regarding Baltar’s lucky guess…maybe the #6 in his head is in touch with Cylon Mission Control. (This would explain why the ship with his accuser in it was conveniently blown up some epidodes back.) She reports his guess on where to drop the bombs back to HQ, the Cylons rig it so he’s right, and Baltar’s a hero (how much so, we see in the next episode). Yes, if so, that suggests that the Cylons are willing to make a large investment in fscking with the humans.

            The problem I have with the Cylons toying with the humans is that at the end of the miniseries the cylons discuss finishing the job and exterminating the humans completely. So, is that the end goal, or just a tension builder for the end of the miniseries? I have said it before, I don’t want this to be a cylon game. Sure some of their maneuvers can be manipulative games, but the cylons are much more menacing if they’re in for it all, not just playing with lab rats.

            I personally think that their plan is to replace the humans, which ties in to the heavily wispered ;-) Caprica subplot. Spoilers: However there are some serious bugs in Helo’s Boomer that might cause problems there (next episode) .

            • nkuzmik says:

              Re: Mysticism

              It’s an awfully huge con, though, if that’s the case

              “They have a plan”. When the start of that plan involves nuking billions of people, a few fake miracles don’t seem out of line.

              Didn’t the mystic say the prophecy applied to the President?
              Didn’t #6 say the the prophecy applied to Baltar?

              Yep. Two different groups using the same religious writings as evidence that they’re the ones with god(s) on their side…the use of religion in the plot is (sadly) very realistic.

              BTW, regarding Baltar’s lucky guess…maybe the #6 in his head is in touch with Cylon Mission Control. (This would explain why the ship with his accuser in it was conveniently blown up some epidodes back.) She reports his guess on where to drop the bombs back to HQ, the Cylons rig it so he’s right, and Baltar’s a hero (how much so, we see in the next episode). Yes, if so, that suggests that the Cylons are willing to make a large investment in fscking with the humans.

              The problem I have with the Cylons toying with the humans is that at the end of the miniseries the cylons discuss finishing the job and exterminating the humans completely. So, is that the end goal, or just a tension builder for the end of the miniseries? I have said it before, I don’t want this to be a cylon game. Sure some of their maneuvers can be manipulative games, but the cylons are much more menacing if they’re in for it all, not just playing with lab rats.

              I personally think that their plan is to replace the humans, which ties in to the heavily wispered ;-) Caprica subplot. Spoilers: However there are some serious bugs in Helo’s Boomer that might cause problems there (next episode) .

              I think there might actually be a good reason for the Cylon’s to keep jerking humanity around. Kobol and/or Earth. Being machines, they would want to make sure they finished the job. If the Cylons beleive that there are other humans out there, then they might come knocking one day… So let Adama’a little fleet scamper off and lead us to them so frag them too. Just a random thought there.

              And here is another one. I have a theory why there are only 12 human type Cylons. During the last war a number of humans were captured before the Cylons retreated. The Cylon’s poke and prodded them, maybe threw a few in cold storage. By the time the Cylons developed their humanoid bodies, which I suspect are essentially human clones with nano-tech enhancements, there were only 12 viable samples left.

              The nano-tech thing makes some sense. There obviously can’t be any large metalic bits in the human-types, otherwise a simple X-Ray would do suffice. Now let’s look at what happend to that Cylon on Ragnar. He wasn’t just experiencing neural problems, he was jaundiced, his breathing was labored, he was having physical problems. That suggests that the radiation around Ragnar was affecting silica components in places other than his brain. This theory is also supported in the mini-series where they explain that the doctor only found something hinky when he ran the body through a mass-spectrometer and discovered “trace” amounts of materials that shouldn’t be there.

              Okay you can tell I’m tired because I’m really rambling but I need a favor. If anybody out there has a tape of Baltar’s explanation of why he needs the plutonium for the Cylon detector, can you transcribe is explanation and post it… It’s for another theory.

              I think I’ll go get some dinner now… Yeah, food would be good…

              • zonk3r says:

                Re: Mysticism
                i like your theory. i can’t come up with anything that knocks that theory down. unfortunately we don’t really find out in this season what is going on but it will be interesting to see how it plays out next season.

          • bombadil says:

            Re: Mysticism

            the Cylons are willing to make a large investment in fscking with the humans.

            It’s not an unexpected loss if they are counting on the Humans finding Kronos, then Earth for them. They would have to plan on getting more fuel to the Humans without making it look obvious.

            • J_W_W says:

              Re: Mysticism

              the Cylons are willing to make a large investment in fscking with the humans.

              Kronos

              Its Kobol. It appears you’ve been watching too much Incredibles. ;-)

        • J_W_W says:

          Re: Mysticism

          As for Galactica mysticism, three possibilities occur to me:

          1)It’s real. Pythias made accurate prophecies, and some higher power is at work.
          2)It’s entirely bogus, and the Cylons are using old prophecies to manipulate the humans. It’s an awfully huge con, though, if that’s the case
          3) The Waffle option: it’s a fake which will turn out to be real or, at least, self-fulfilling, thus leaving us wondering if it’s really real, you know, and, like, isn’t that kewl, ’cause like, what if, like, you know, like, in real life, and it makes ya think, doesn’t it?

          Didn’t the mystic say the prophecy applied to the President?
          Didn’t #6 say the the prophecy applied to Baltar?

          The preistess said to the president that the prophecy said that the humans leader would lead the fleet to Earth, but not survive. Then she said, but you’re not dying are you? (ominous undertones)

          I don’t think Baltar’s directly mentioned in the prophecy. Six uses his correct guess at the location to target as proof that he is an instrument of god, pumping up his ego like an overinflated baloon. But, just wait til next week, I don’t know how long it will be til his ego pops. I really want to see Baltar taken down hard.

          • white.roses says:

            Re: Mysticism

            I don’t think Baltar’s directly mentioned in the prophecy.

            Six made mention of the 12 serpents being represented by the 12 Viper fighters used in the attack, so there is a link there. Which is more compelling, hallucinations or symbolism?

      • joe__gee says:

        Re: Mysticism
        I suspect the writers will find a way to turn this mysticism on its ear. It *could* be interesting, depending on how gutsy the writers are when they conclude this particular plot wrinkle. :)

        Wouldn’t it be great, just once, to have the whole mysticism thing come up empty? The President is cured, the fleet doesn’t find the Promised Land, and lo and behold, the kamala-induced hallucination of 12 vipers on Roslyn’s podium turns out to be a kamala-induced hallucination of 12 vipers on Roslyn’s podium. :)

        I’d wager that will be the eventual outcome of the whole thing, but having seen the season finale I cannot say I know any more about this than anyone else.

        It occurs to me the Cylons might see themselves as missionaries for their one god. Maybe the Cylons are just Jehovah’s Witnesses with really bad attitudes and kick-ass weapons. :)

        -Joe G.

        • theosis says:

          Re: Mysticism

          I suspect the writers will find a way to turn this mysticism on its ear. It *coulIt
          occurs to me the Cylons might see themselves as missionaries for their one
          god. Maybe the Cylons are just Jehovah’s Witnesses with really bad attitudes
          and kick-ass weapons. :)

          -Joe G.

          Funny you should say that. In the original BSG, Glen Larson (writer/produce
          for original BSG) was a Mormon. Supposedly BSG has subtle references to
          Mormonism in the series.

          I’m not sure how much of that will translate into the new series, but
          seeing the heavy handed God/sprituality perspective already intertwined in
          the first season, it may be likely. If anything, they may twist it to resemble
          another Judeo-Christian faith/denomination.

          See: Wikipedia: Battlestar
          Galactica 1978

          Since we’re on the topic, and for those who may have a keen eye, my
          username reflects the Eastern
          Orthodox
          definition of Theosis, not Mormonism. :-)

    • nkuzmik says:

      Re: Mysticism

      Yeah, the mysticism is kinda annoying.

      As for the ‘potential spoiler’, my girlfriend called it the second it happend… so… you know.

      Sidenote – how come we don’t get Stargate discussions?

      Just out of curiosity, why are we still being circumspect about this spoiler? England saw all this almost a year ago. The US saw it last week, and Timeshredder’s post tells us that Canada has seen it. So why are we acting like it’s the elephant sitting in the corner?

      Now that I have that out of my system. I saw the possible etiology of the event in question. I also agree that there are timing issues that would make the event in question somewhat premature… But I have another theory: I suspect that Boomer-C was not taking her anti-radiation meds, as Helo suggested. The vomiting was an affect of the radiation on her body, which appears to be very similar to human physiology. Recall that we already have precedent for radiation affecting Cylon’s differently than humans. Anyway, she was skipping her meds, banking that she could rely on her Cylon bits to keep functioning. It might just be rather unpleasant while her organic components start dying.

      Why, you ask, would she do this? “The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of.
      — Blaise Pascal”

      Okay, I’ll stop talking… For now.

      • y42 says:

        Re: Mysticism

        Yeah, the mysticism is kinda annoying.

        As for the ‘potential spoiler’, my girlfriend called it the second it happend… so… you know.

        Sidenote – how come we don’t get Stargate discussions?

        Just out of curiosity, why are we still being circumspect about this spoiler? England saw all this almost a year ago. The US saw it last week, and Timeshredder’s post tells us that Canada has seen it. So why are we acting like it’s the elephant sitting in the corner?

        Because I haven’t seen it yet and I’m checking out the reviews to see if it’s worth it to take steps to make it available to me (this would basically be bribing a friend with food so they’ll let me watch it at their cable-rich house).

        Thanks, I appreciate the use of special fonts to hide spoilers. Sincerly.

        • pdavis says:

          Re: Mysticism
          Needless to say, it is well worth watching. I highly recommend a marathon session to get caught up:)

      • nkuzmik says:

        Re: Mysticism

        Yeah, the mysticism is kinda annoying.

        As for the ‘potential spoiler’, my girlfriend called it the second it happend… so… you know.

        Sidenote – how come we don’t get Stargate discussions?

        Just out of curiosity, why are we still being circumspect about this spoiler? England saw all this almost a year ago. The US saw it last week, and Timeshredder’s post tells us that Canada has seen it. So why are we acting like it’s the elephant sitting in the corner?

        Now that I have that out of my system. I saw the possible etiology of the event in question. I also agree that there are timing issues that would make the event in question somewhat premature… But I have another theory: I suspect that Boomer-C was not taking her anti-radiation meds, as Helo suggested. The vomiting was an affect of the radiation on her body, which appears to be very similar to human physiology. Recall that we already have precedent for radiation affecting Cylon’s differently than humans. Anyway, she was skipping her meds, banking that she could rely on her Cylon bits to keep functioning. It might just be rather unpleasant while her organic components start dying.

        Why, you ask, would she do this? “The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of.
        — Blaise Pascal”

        Okay, I’ll stop talking… For now.

        I know it’s bad form to respond to your own post, but this possible development brings a whole new meaning to a “bun in the (toaster) oven.”

        I couldn’t resist.

        • obscurion says:

          Re: Mysticism
          As to the vomiting, there is a senario that has not been
          considered: she is pregnant.

          Why not? She is mostly human.

          Plot device? It would help keep the humans from killing her
          when she
          shows up on Galactica if that ever happens. It seriously conflicts Helo
          which would be interesting (loyalty, fatherhood, and the "what is human"
          schtick)
          .

          Other possibilities include her dying from radiation before
          Galactica which helps solve the two Boomers problem–but would freak
          Helo when he meets a now single Boomer on the ship

          It is also worth considering that the Galactica may not be as far away as
          one might expect given their pathway would need to be very non-linear
          to throw off the Cylons. If Boomer-C can get information at the shuttle
          base of the Galactica’s last known position then Helo would have a
          chance of finding the fleet–nice end of season cliff hanger?

          ——–

          Anyone else think the president will be saved by Cylon nanobots? I think
          this is one reason a friendly and Cylon aware Boomer-C would show up
          at the Galactica.

      • joe__gee says:

        YOU MENTIONED THE ELEPHANT!

        So why are we acting like it’s the elephant sitting in the corner?

        Heretic. :)

        -Joe G.

  3. Drew1Down says:

    Baltar is a …..
    CYLON. Ok look at the facts. In the opening credits you see baltar NUKED, (no one can survive the shockwave, much less the 6 billion degree heat in its wake) remember the saying “there are many copies”.

    He has these visions, (you can call it a second voice) the woman in the red dress talks to him and he can fuck her and she can control him.

    Hey, I know why he is the only person doing the tests, because if he had an assistant, the assistant would notice he talks to himself and do a test on baltar. But nooooo we can’t introduce that element.

    b4 I get the comments on how wrong I am, let me say this. When a cylon dies its program is transferred. He knows more then he “thinks” he knows, that’s why he can make these “lucky guesses” and they work, he is unconscious making the right choices, and he is/has being/been manipulated.

    • roseblood says:

      Re: Baltar is a …..

      CYLON. Ok look at the facts. In the opening credits you see baltar NUKED, (no one can survive the shockwave, much less the 6 billion degree heat in its wake) remember the saying “there are many copies”.

      Okay, I won’t argue the other points . . . but . . .

      The physical overpressure front (shockwave) that follows a nuclear detonation can/will/does outdistance the “everything is toast” radius where everything is reduced to radioactive dust. The heat at the core of a nuclear detonaton isn’t the same heat thats radiated outwards. Basicly, you’re at steallar grade heat at ground zero, and in a perfect enviroment the heat falls off in an inverse square ratio – double the distance and you quarter the power.

      The surface of a planet isn’t the prefect place for propagation of energy . . . the ground is a great heatsink, it’ll soak up the majority of energy that it contacts, the atmosphere will also diffuse radiant heat in that as air increases in temp. it’ll tend to rise carrying away heat.

      Now, this isn’t addressing the “thermal pulse” that comes from the momentary but intense output of energy that comes in the form of IR and “longer” wavelenghts. As materials are exposed to the energy they change its form from Electromagnetic to Radiant Heat (think a microwave oven.) This can start fires in flamable materials BEFORE the arrival of an overpressure wave. EM energy moves at light speed while the overpressure wave is propgated by compression of the atmosphere and is limited to the speed of sound. EM energy is also subject to the inverse square law and falls off just as fast as the propogation of radiant heat.

      So, from ground zero out, this is how you see damage:

      TOAST -> Leveled and thermal pulse fire, also lots of secondary fires set by super-hot eject from the “TOAST” zone -> Heavy blast/overpressure damage and perhaps some thermal pulse ignited fires as well as fires set by burning ejecta from the “toast” zone -> moderate overpressure damage and little fire caused directly by the primary detonation (this is where it gets to be quite survivable in the VERY SHORT TERM, secondary fires are quite likely… this is like a strong earthquake ground-zero, not to mention radiation and fallout) -> shattered glass zone where the overpressure has disappated enough to only damage non-structural elements of buildinds (fire quite unlikely here except as caused by burning ejecta from the “toast” zone and outward conventional spread of fire from the inner rings.

      But, with this said, if Baltar’s neighborhood was anywhere nearly densly populated as a North American suburb as you find today he’d likely be unable to flee the effects of fall out and radiation (unless the gods made sure he was upwind of the nearest blasts, or he lived in the bonnies and had no worries about refugee jammed roadways.) He sure as hell should be quite sick . . . and we’ve seen Boomer Caprica sick from radiation (the spolier people think that morning sicknes strikes the day after doing the ..well you know.)

      • Timeshredder says:

        I want to buy a vowel!

        (the spolier people think that morning sicknes strikes the day after doing the ..well you know.)

        It generally doesn’t strike until the second month, but that has never stopped tv and movies from using it as a kind of shorthand for “time to buy a crib.” It’s hard to know whether they mean her illness to represent sickness of the morning or the radiation variety.

        • Jethro says:

          Re: I want to buy a vowel!
          Plus, she’s not human, so who knows what rates things happen at.

          • Timeshredder says:

            We have a second, inner eyelid, which we tend to ignore, much as you do your appendix.

            Yeah, but that’d be cheating. Sure, we don’t know if Galactica humans have the same biology as us, but since they’re like us in every other respect, it would follow. And, since Human-seeming Cylons are so close to Galactica humans that they can barely be distinguished….

            Okay, that may be a new high/low in nerdy debating for me.

            • yodapez18 says:

              Re: We have a second, inner eyelid, which we tend to ignore, much as you do your appendix.
              being picky about how long it should take for a cylon to ahve morning sickness is pretty much snowboarding off the same cliff of continutiy that makes star trek fans so annoying, let let it go for now.
              I suspect the cylons are manipulating Baltar into becoming the leader of the fleet. I also wouldnt be surprised if they manipulated Boomer into becoming pregnant. if helo and boomer steal a cylon ship maybe its faster then the humans ships and they can catch up to galactica? I dunno
              Now taht baltar is VP, he is within striking distance of being president, which is sort of what he was in the first series, before he started running things for the cylons. maybe they are grooming him to be their leader. They always babble on about souls and emotion and god so they could be planning to put a human in charge to make them more human.
              The mysticism is kind of a cool homage to the original series. This show expects to be around for a while, they are putting things in motion with a feeling similiar to JMS with babylon 5.
              by the way can we use the number 12 any where else in the show? 12 cylon models 12 colonies 12 serpents
              Except of course Earth makes thirteen? so maybe baltar is model 13, or Boomers baby is number 13.
              Incidently I suspect one of the Boomers is going to die, and im betting it wont be the Caprica one. Or maybe they can pull a Tasha yar and screw with us or a season or two, have Battlestar boomer “die” in a cylon atttack and then bring her back in an epsiode weeks alter, only to find out shes not the real battlestar boomer, but yet another copy and then the real battlestar boomer appears.
              And jerry Springer could guest star
              are there going to be any aliens in this show by the way? what the hell kind of sci fi is this?

              • Timeshredder says:

                Look! Look! Elephant in the corner!

                I hope y42 didn’t read your post. So much for the careful use of spoiler tags.

              • J_W_W says:

                Re: We have a second, inner eyelid, which we tend to ignore, much as you do your appendix.

                being picky about how long it should take for a cylon to ahve morning sickness is pretty much snowboarding off the same cliff of continutiy that makes star trek fans so annoying, let let it go for now.
                I suspect the cylons are manipulating Baltar into becoming the leader of the fleet. I also wouldnt be surprised if they manipulated Boomer into becoming pregnant. if helo and boomer steal a cylon ship maybe its faster then the humans ships and they can catch up to galactica? I dunno
                Now taht baltar is VP, he is within striking distance of being president, which is sort of what he was in the first series, before he started running things for the cylons. maybe they are grooming him to be their leader. They always babble on about souls and emotion and god so they could be planning to put a human in charge to make them more human.
                The mysticism is kind of a cool homage to the original series. This show expects to be around for a while, they are putting things in motion with a feeling similiar to JMS with babylon 5.
                by the way can we use the number 12 any where else in the show? 12 cylon models 12 colonies 12 serpents
                Except of course Earth makes thirteen? so maybe baltar is model 13, or Boomers baby is number 13.
                Incidently I suspect one of the Boomers is going to die, and im betting it wont be the Caprica one. Or maybe they can pull a Tasha yar and screw with us or a season or two, have Battlestar boomer “die” in a cylon atttack and then bring her back in an epsiode weeks alter, only to find out shes not the real battlestar boomer, but yet another copy and then the real battlestar boomer appears.
                And jerry Springer could guest star
                are there going to be any aliens in this show by the way? what the hell kind of sci fi is this?

                I have had the idea that Galactica’s Boomer will be killed since the miniseries. What I am thinking would happen is for Galactica’s Boomer to kill herself and have her consciousness transferred into another unit. Spoilers start: Now my idea is that in the finale when they are being threatened by a basestar, that Boomer will awaken in a new body on the basestar. If proximity is a problem for transfer, then they would have to be relatively close to the basestar when she does this, but I think that will be the case. Galactica Boomer will be in a new body, but still be loyal to the humans. She will then destroy the basestar from the inside, since I don’t think Galactica has the ability to beat a basestar and survive, and Boomer will know that.

                I also believe that Caprica Boomer has to make it to the fleet, otherwise that whole storyline is really meaningless, and theres so much potential if she can catch them. Plus, it really appears that the cylons will know exactly where Galactica is in the finale.

          • obscurion says:

            Re: I want to buy a vowel!
            <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE="cite">
            Plus, she’s not human, so who knows what rates things happen at.
            </BLOCKQUOTE>

            Perhaps pregnant Cylons was not something that had
            been considered by the Empire. After all, they don’t seem to er mess
            with each other, being constructed and all.

            Perhaps the Cylon "nanobots" or whatever, are not fully compatible with
            this new situation. Maybe they are trying to "heal" it which doesn’t bode
            well.

            • nkuzmik says:

              Re: I want to buy a vowel!

              Plus, she’s not human, so who knows what rates things happen at.

              Perhaps pregnant Cylons was not something that had
              been considered by the Empire. After all, they don’t seem to er mess
              with each other, being constructed and all.

              Perhaps the Cylon “nanobots” or whatever, are not fully compatible with
              this new situation. Maybe they are trying to “heal” it which doesn’t bode
              well.

              I should point out that the use of nanobots by the Cylons is entirely a product of my own, diseased mind.
              Honestly people, Mad Cow Disease is not that bad! Less grey matter means ideas can move around my head faster and more freely!

              • obscurion says:

                Re: I want to buy a vowel!
                Understood, it is a good idea though.

                I presume that the dead Cylons on the ship have been autopsied and
                little found. If they had found something they could just look for that
                and be done with it. No silly Baltar 11-hour stuff.

                This leaves nanobots, carbon fiber filaments (non-metallic, hard to find
                conductor) or some exremely funky genetic engineering. My vote goes
                to all three. Nanobots for general control and repair, filaments for
                linking to areas of the brain and nervous system, and genetic
                engineering to wrap it all together. I’d assume there is also some kind of
                power source to drive it all and ward off fatigue.

                Since the general tech in use doesn’t seem too wildly out there
                (excepting the FTL drive and maybe machine intelligence) I’m assuming
                the tech used in the Cylon Homologues is at least somewhat
                comprehensible.

                Either that, or "God" plays chess.

                ————————

                A few questions that have been bothering me:

                If Cylons can upload from great distances then why can’t they
                communicate/track each other from the same distances?

                If Cylons can upload then they must have some kind of power source
                and maybe a recognizable antenna. Also, how do they deal with
                potentally light-years of travel for the upload? FTL in their heads?
                Wouldn’t that require a significant structure that isn’t present in
                standard humans?

                If they can store all memories then where do they store it? Quantum spin
                memory or some other high tech would reduce the size of the memory
                module but all sensory info is a huge amount of info. Does the upload
                only give a synopsis of their life? Personally, I’d want to take a look
                inside their larger bones to see what is there.

                If you were a Cylon "toaster" and you designed your Homologue to deal
                with the humans, then would you really make them the highest level of
                leadership, higher than you? Or just make them think they are the
                highest? So when do we see the Super-Cylons?

                So what are they really testing with Helo and friend? His emotional
                range? Love between humans? His fitness to be a Cylon clone source?
                They seem very willing to kill him ("If he falls asleep he dies", "if he
                leaves the cabin then kill him"). Perhaps they are testing
                Boomer…suspicious that she is not really fit to be a Cylon?

                ——–

                Mad Cow Disease seems to be spreading!

                • nkuzmik says:

                  Re: I want to buy a vowel!

                  Understood, it is a good idea though.

                  I presume that the dead Cylons on the ship have been autopsied and
                  little found. If they had found something they could just look for that
                  and be done with it. No silly Baltar 11-hour stuff.

                  This leaves nanobots, carbon fiber filaments (non-metallic, hard to find
                  conductor) or some exremely funky genetic engineering. My vote goes
                  to all three. Nanobots for general control and repair, filaments for
                  linking to areas of the brain and nervous system, and genetic
                  engineering to wrap it all together. I’d assume there is also some kind of
                  power source to drive it all and ward off fatigue.

                  Since the general tech in use doesn’t seem too wildly out there
                  (excepting the FTL drive and maybe machine intelligence) I’m assuming
                  the tech used in the Cylon Homologues is at least somewhat
                  comprehensible.

                  Either that, or “God” plays chess.

                  ————————

                  A few questions that have been bothering me:

                  If Cylons can upload from great distances then why can’t they
                  communicate/track each other from the same distances?

                  If Cylons can upload then they must have some kind of power source
                  and maybe a recognizable antenna. Also, how do they deal with
                  potentally light-years of travel for the upload? FTL in their heads?
                  Wouldn’t that require a significant structure that isn’t present in
                  standard humans?

                  If they can store all memories then where do they store it? Quantum spin
                  memory or some other high tech would reduce the size of the memory
                  module but all sensory info is a huge amount of info. Does the upload
                  only give a synopsis of their life? Personally, I’d want to take a look
                  inside their larger bones to see what is there.

                  If you were a Cylon “toaster” and you designed your Homologue to deal
                  with the humans, then would you really make them the highest level of
                  leadership, higher than you? Or just make them think they are the
                  highest? So when do we see the Super-Cylons?

                  So what are they really testing with Helo and friend? His emotional
                  range? Love between humans? His fitness to be a Cylon clone source?
                  They seem very willing to kill him (“If he falls asleep he dies”, “if he
                  leaves the cabin then kill him”). Perhaps they are testing
                  Boomer…suspicious that she is not really fit to be a Cylon?

                  ——–

                  Mad Cow Disease seems to be spreading!

                  That “super-cylon” thing has some potential. It would be very easy for this show to get too dark. RDM has done a good job keeping some humor present. But I think it would still be nice to a serious cylon smackdown.

    • coyote says:

      Re: Baltar is a …..

      CYLON. Ok look at the facts. In the opening credits you see baltar NUKED, (no one can survive the shockwave, much less the 6 billion degree heat in its wake) remember the saying “there are many copies”.

      The overpressure wave doesn’t kill you, the flying shards of glass do. Six protected him from that.

      As an aside, this is why the optimal height for a nuclear explosion against soft targets is substantially above ground. Detonate it at the ground and the overpressure wave will dissipate from the ground clutter. Detonate it at 1000′ (or probably higher with a hydrogen bomb) and the overpressure wave will slam down on buildings like a fist. The area of destruction is actually larger than for a ground blast.

  4. neutralguy says:

    Spirituality
    I like the spirituality as it is key to how the Cylons are getting out of their delima. Briefly, I think the Cylons believe in the prophecies. They believe that they are ultimately doomed. Their only “out” is to integrate themselves via reproduction with the creators… to blur the line. I think this is a very interesting approach. Of course, my take on what they are up to could be completely wrong, but that’s how I see it.

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